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  • Need help getting started on dust collection please

    Hi Guys! So I've recently built in my carport for a small wood shop. I have the main machines hooked to power and I'm at the stage where I need to hook up dust collection. I have a 2 hp General d/c with a 1 micron filter and I'd like to hook it to my older Unisaw, Progress edge sander, and an old Jet 14" bandsaw. The bandsaw has no dust ports on it as of yet but I've looked up a few ways on how to do it. For the Unisaw I'm hoping to get a Shark guard and put a 3" to that and a 4" to the base once I figure out how to fab a port to it. The edge sander will get at least one 4" hose on the factory dust hood, and I may put one at the other end as well (the 4" to 2.5" reducer you see is a temp for a shop vac). For the bandsaw I picture using Rob Cosman's setup https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut_tqnqrRww and maybe adding a 4" port at the bottom if it's not too much. alson on the opposite wal there will be my mitre saw which would be nice to hook up if possible. If not I have a good shop vac I could use there. I'll attach a panorama pic of my shop and a rough layout.

    The d/c has a double 4" "y" coming off it, and if I remove it there's a single 6" port. I have 50' of 4" hose i got for a screaming deal. I also have a few plastic 4" fittings and about 4 plastic blast gates in 4" I've read many setup options that others have done and it's time I pick a plan and go with it I It's about 17' from the bandsaw to the d/c. I need experienced opinions on:

    -Can I get away with just using 4" hose as the header?
    -If not should I go with 6" metal? 6"pvc? Grounding options for either?
    - Am I even able to hook up all my stuff with this d/c?
    -Do I have to consider a cyclone bin at this point as well?

    Thanks in advance folks!

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  • #2

    Re: Need help getting started on dust collection please

    Hi, I would definitely go with 6" metal ducting.

    4 inch isn't large enough for a table saw, you'll need 5" for the cabinet and 2 or 3" for the overhead guard. The saw cabinet will need 500 to 600CFM, the overhead about 100 to 200CFM.

    4 Inch. although common, simply isn't large enough to permit enough airflow to capture the fine dust, which is what the objective is. Keep your use of flex to the absolute minimum as it has high static pressure loss.

    I suggest you make a sketch of your shop, indicating required airflow, and then use the spreadsheet on Bill Pentz's website to calculate your static pressure losses.
    This will allow you to size your pipe and determine if your collector has enough capacity........Regards, Rod.
    Jaybird33 likes this.
    Work is the curse of the riding class.

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    • #3

      Re: Need help getting started on dust collection please

      I would also consider adding a cyclone like the Oneida Super Dust Deputy as it will avoid anything ending up in the plastic bag and a lot less dust in the filter.
      Jaybird33 likes this.
      Erik

      Canada's Island Paradise - Prince Edward Island

      Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club

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      • #4

        Re: Need help getting started on dust collection please

        I'd also consider a filter upgrade for that unit like these: https://www.oneida-air.com/inventoryD.asp?item_no=FXK011820&CatId={F433512C-BF2B-4A53-8628-FFE319A03170}

        This way you get certified performance at the dust levels most important for your health. It's also a lifetime filter investment if you take care of it.

        B
        Jaybird33 likes this.
        Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club.

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        • #5

          Re: Need help getting started on dust collection please

          Rod: Thanks so much for the reference to Bill Pentz's site. I'm knee deep in it right now. Any other advice you may have would be greatly appreciated. Oh and why metal ducting over plastic? Just for static purposes? I only ask because it seems plastic would be easier to work with and has more proper fittings readily available, as long as I use a grounding kit. Thoughts?

          Erik: Have you used the Super Dust Deputy? I've read mixed reviews on it. Appreciate the feedback and I like the idea.

          Timberframe: Yeah I think I will go that route. I have a 1 micron cartridge but may as well do it right the first time.

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          • #6

            Re: Need help getting started on dust collection please

            Read this book its excellent. It has many of the answers.

            https://www.amazon.ca/Woodshop-Dust-.../dp/1561584991
            Jaybird33 likes this.
            Mike

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            • #7

              Re: Need help getting started on dust collection please

              Originally posted by Jaybird33 View Post

              Erik: Have you used the Super Dust Deputy? I've read mixed reviews on it. Appreciate the feedback and I like the idea.
              Yes, I use the same setup as you except with a Steel SDD mounted on a large trash pail and a length of 5” flex hose that reaches most things that need it. Not ideal, but is a good interim solution for the amount of sawdust I make.
              Jaybird33 likes this.
              Erik

              Canada's Island Paradise - Prince Edward Island

              Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club

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              • #8

                Re: Need help getting started on dust collection please

                -Can I get away with just using 4" hose as the header?
                No - use 6"

                -If not should I go with 6" metal?
                I'd get metal/I have metal. No grounding issues, it's available, it's what they sell for DC duct

                - Am I even able to hook up all my stuff with this d/c?
                I think you'll get reasonable results for your space/machines, get blast gates

                -Do I have to consider a cyclone bin at this point as well?
                Absolutely. It will help protect your filter and keep your system's performance from degrading as dust clogs it.

                Have you used the Super Dust Deputy?
                I have an Oneida cyclone and it works very well. I've dealt with the people at Oneida and they had lots of time for me and helped me out even though I was just looking for information (I bought my setup used). I wouldn't hesitate to purchase an Oneida product again... in fact I plan to if I ever manage to get into a larger shop
                DGB_WAT and Jaybird33 like this.

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                • #9

                  Re: Need help getting started on dust collection please

                  Originally posted by Jaybird33 View Post
                  Rod: Thanks so much for the reference to Bill Pentz's site. I'm knee deep in it right now. Any other advice you may have would be greatly appreciated. Oh and why metal ducting over plastic? Just for static purposes? I only ask because it seems plastic would be easier to work with and has more proper fittings readily available, as long as I use a grounding kit. Thoughts?

                  Erik: Have you used the Super Dust Deputy? I've read mixed reviews on it. Appreciate the feedback and I like the idea.

                  Timberframe: Yeah I think I will go that route. I have a 1 micron cartridge but may as well do it right the first time.
                  Hi Jaybird,

                  1) Please update your member profile with at least your given name, so I don't have to call you jaybird. Unless of course you're in the witness protection program

                  2) Metal is inexpensive, easy to work with and provides grounding to prevent static discharge to people. You cannot ground an insulator.

                  3) As you have a single stage system, there are 2 issues with it, the filter will frequently plug resulting in poor airflow and any foreign object will be drawn through the impeller. My system picked up a tape measure once, what a racket as it spun around in the cyclone, would have been different if it went through the impeller.

                  4) if you do go with a 2 stage system, add a couple of floor sweeps, really helps keep the shop clean.

                  Glad you're reading Bill's site, there is some good info in it...................Regards, Rod.
                  Jaybird33 and altiplano like this.
                  Work is the curse of the riding class.

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                  • #10

                    Re: Need help getting started on dust collection please

                    Originally posted by altiplano View Post
                    -Can I get away with just using 4" hose as the header?
                    No - use 6"

                    -If not should I go with 6" metal?
                    I'd get metal/I have metal. No grounding issues, it's available, it's what they sell for DC duct

                    - Am I even able to hook up all my stuff with this d/c?
                    I think you'll get reasonable results for your space/machines, get blast gates

                    -Do I have to consider a cyclone bin at this point as well?
                    Absolutely. It will help protect your filter and keep your system's performance from degrading as dust clogs it.

                    Have you used the Super Dust Deputy?
                    I have an Oneida cyclone and it works very well. I've dealt with the people at Oneida and they had lots of time for me and helped me out even though I was just looking for information (I bought my setup used). I wouldn't hesitate to purchase an Oneida product again... in fact I plan to if I ever manage to get into a larger shop
                    I can second the fantastic customer service from Oneida.
                    I bought a used system and they were extremely helpful and went way above and beyond helping me set up my system.

                    Nathan

                    p.s. The grounding thing is a non issue that gets repeated a lot on the internet. Use whatever is cheapest/easiest to get your hands on.
                    Jaybird33 and like this.

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                    • #11

                      Re: Need help getting started on dust collection please

                      It's my understanding that the grounding issue is around two main risks.

                      1 - The risk of fire or explosion/deflagration due to high dust levels within the system. Many forms of dust in high enough concentrations will burn extremely fast (in other words explode) with an ignition source such as a spark. This is why some industrial systems include automated fire detection and suppression etc. Many old flour mills exploded in days gone by: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dust_explosion

                      I'm really not sure about the level of risk to be honest, but my dust collector comes factory equipped with a flame suppressor.

                      2 - Static shock from your hoses. This is not like your typical wintertime shock you get from something after shuffling your feet across the carpet. This can be a snap that you feel up past your elbow! I don't have all of mine grounded yet, and especially with the planer, you can get just about lifted off the floor with a good one! Not pleasant.
                      Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club.

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                      • #12

                        Re: Need help getting started on dust collection please

                        Originally posted by nnieman View Post

                        I can second the fantastic customer service from Oneida.
                        I bought a used system and they were extremely helpful and went way above and beyond helping me set up my system.

                        Nathan

                        p.s. The grounding thing is a non issue that gets repeated a lot on the internet. Use whatever is cheapest/easiest to get your hands on.
                        The grounding issue is not a non issue Nathan, unless you mean the risk of ignition in a small system.

                        The static issue is one of operator contact and static discharge which can result in injuries if you react to the shock and stick a body part somewhere it's not meant to be.

                        regards, Rod.
                        Work is the curse of the riding class.

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                        • #13

                          Re: Need help getting started on dust collection please

                          Thanks again everyone! So I do believe I will go with the metal ducting and seal up the seams good. Now in retrospect I'm wishing I would a spent some more money and got a 2 stage system but I was on a tight budget as this all started with a carport with no power and no tools lol. I got the General 2 hp d/c on clearance for $550 from KMS tools. Rod: I updated my profile. My name is Jay, pleased to meet you lol. Sounds like my best option at this point is to add a cyclone like the dust deputy and maybe a HEPA. Again in retrospect, seems like by the time I do that I'm in it for the same cost as a small 2 stage system anyway. If I add a Dust Deputy do you guys think I'd effectively have a decent 2 stage system then? I mean does it actually keep some fine dust out of the filter or just larger chips? Also I'm seeing there is a metal and plastic version of it. Any good reason to not get the cheaper plastic version? If I do get that particular cyclone, the fittings on it only appear to allow for a 5" header. Is that sufficient?
                          Last edited by Jaybird33; 02-14-2018, 10:11 PM.

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                          • #14

                            Re: Need help getting started on dust collection please

                            Hi Jay !

                            A SDD does an amazing job separating the dust before it gets to the filter. And using a barrel is so much easier than emptying a bag

                            Apparently (according to Oneida) the only difference between the metal and the plastic cyclone is the price and the ability to handle more abrasive materials !

                            I have a friend with the same model collector and a 6" main will result in a drop in velocity compared to 5".

                            My tests show a velocity of 2500 with 6" and 3300 with 5".

                            On my system there is barely enough dust in my clean out box to write your name

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                            The only time I see any dust in the clean out box is when I'm doing a lot of stroke sanding.

                            Cheers, Don

                            Don Kondra - Furniture Designer/Maker
                            Product Photography
                            My Acreage Bird Photographs

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                            • #15

                              Re: Need help getting started on dust collection please

                              Wow nice Don! So you have the 5" main then? Did you get that blower off a single stage d/c? And what hp and cfm? The general I have claims 1600 cfm.

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