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  • Dust Collection

    Hi all,

    I am considering this specific dust collector from busy bee tools;

    Dust collector

    It will be used for connection to a table saw (rigid R4512) and a dewalt planer, only one at a time and connected to each machine as being used.
    I am a little bit restricted in regards to both space and power considerations (only have 110 - regular outlets at the moment).
    I will certainly be purchasing the hepa canister as well as I understand that the bag filters are both insufficient in particle size.

    Although listed at 825cfm, I suspect the effective cfm will be a little bit less (600 or so?) at the machine connection.

    I do currently have a shop vac with both hepa filter and hepa bags installed, but the cfm is rather low to address the dust from the table saw (planer is not bad at all, probably because it has its own blower built in)

    Any other models recommended or other things to consider that I may have missed.. other models to consider or places to look? Additions? Etc..?

    I am also planning on building an air cleaner (built into a mobile stand for my planer)

    Thanks
    Jon kleist likes this.
  • Thread Continues Below...

  • #2

    Re: Dust Collection

    Originally posted by LaPedrera View Post
    Hi all,

    I am considering this specific dust collector from busy bee tools;

    Dust collector

    It will be used for connection to a table saw (rigid R4512) and a dewalt planer, only one at a time and connected to each machine as being used.
    I am a little bit restricted in regards to both space and power considerations (only have 110 - regular outlets at the moment).
    I will certainly be purchasing the hepa canister as well as I understand that the bag filters are both insufficient in particle size.

    Although listed at 825cfm, I suspect the effective cfm will be a little bit less (600 or so?) at the machine connection.

    I do currently have a shop vac with both hepa filter and hepa bags installed, but the cfm is rather low to address the dust from the table saw (planer is not bad at all, probably because it has its own blower built in)

    Any other models recommended or other things to consider that I may have missed.. other models to consider or places to look? Additions? Etc..?

    I am also planning on building an air cleaner (built into a mobile stand for my planer)

    Thanks
    Why don't you just buy this one and you'll have a much better machine and room for more hook ups as you add more tools. You could connect 3 or 4 machines to this and use 2 at once if needed.

    Comment


    • #3

      Re: Dust Collection

      Originally posted by Wally in Calgary View Post

      Why don't you just buy this one and you'll have a much better machine and room for more hook ups as you add more tools. You could connect 3 or 4 machines to this and use 2 at once if needed.
      Primarily, the stated "(only have 110 - regular outlets at the moment)." Also want to get something to HEPA filtration levels.
      Last edited by LaPedrera; 01-27-2019, 11:37 PM.

      Comment


      • #4

        Re: Dust Collection

        Originally posted by LaPedrera View Post

        Primarily, the stated "(only have 110 - regular outlets at the moment)." Also want to get something to HEPA filtration levels.
        Do you have a breaker box in the shop??

        Comment


        • #5

          Re: Dust Collection

          I have the original one posted, and it is "adequate" at best.
          I wish I had gone bigger.

          Noel
          "Being so impressed with the beauty of nature, I never cease to be amazed at how the
          'touch of the human hand' can transform it into another kind of beauty that is so uniquely human.
          "
          John Snow, Outdoorsman and Retired Teacher

          Comment


          • #6

            Re: Dust Collection

            To the OP,

            When I started woodworking I bought a shopvac. I figured that would work fine. It kinda did, till I bought a planer. Then it worked terribly, and clogged constantly. I knew I needed to upgrade to a real DC.

            Someone here posted a link to bill Pence's website, and I looked briefly at it, but it seemed to have a lot of real complicated information and crap to figure out, charts, CFM, and all this stuff I just didn't have headspace for. So I thought "I'll just buy something that looks good at busy bee: they sell enough of them, I'm sure it will work fine."

            So I bought the cx405, very similar to the unit you linked to.

            At first it was amazing!! I couldn't believe how well that thing sucked! I was so happy, and I felt really vindicated in my decision not to waste time wading through Pence's website - after all, things were working great!

            After a while through, I started to get annoyed with changing the bag all the time. Even with the quick change bags, it was awkward and annoying, and I always seemed to get a face full of dust. Also, because the quick change bags are expensive, I wanted to re-use them, which meant transferring all the shavings and dust into another bag. That process, no matter how I tried it, was terrible, always resulting in dust everywhere!

            Then one day I visited another guy's shop and I saw a super dust deputy in action. This cyclone funnel attaches before the dust collector and works to separate all the dust and shavings from the air stream before it gets to the dust collector. All the shavings drop out the botto$ of the collector into a barrel, and your dust collector stays nice and clean and empty! Right away I went out and bought one, that cost a few hundred more. The whole set up took up twice the footprint in my shop too, but it was worth it for the functionality.

            I still had to empty that barrel into bags though, and that was messy and annoying, but then I discovered I could add a bleeder hose from the DC to the barrel, and that allowed me to put a bag right in the barrel! When it got full, I could just tie the bag and throw it out so easy! Finally I had a great DC set up! I thought.

            After a while I noticed that the suction wasn't what it used to be. Eventually I figured out my filter bag was clogged with caked on dust. The super dust deputy separates the heavier shavings, but most of the fine dust makes it through and hits the filter bag. Once clogged, the air flow through the whole DC system was choked off. So I started cleaning the bag regularly, shaking and banging it off outside. That too was a dusty, dirty job that I hated.

            Then one day the sun was coming through the window just right when I turned on the DC, and I was able to see the plume of dust in the air that came off my dust filter bag! It was like an atomic mushroom cloud. "Well if all that's going into the air for me to breath," I wondered, "then what's the point?". So then I spent another half a grand on the hepa cannister filter upgrade. Not only was that more healthy, but the increased surface area of the filter allowed for more air flow, which meant more suction! I was thrilled! Finally I had a good DC set up!

            But then I expanded my ducting in the shop. First, I increased the size of my piping. I had originally gone with smaller 4" pipe because that was cheaper and the machines had 4" outlets, so that must mean 4" is good enough, right? Who cares what Pence's chart says! But 4" kept clogging at the planer, so finally I had to pay double to pull out all the old 4" ducting and put in bigger pipes. When I did that, I also lengthened the run to reach more machines that previously I hadn't thought I would ever need hooked up to DC. The new piping was great, but I soon found that even with it's fancy new cannister filter, my DC just wasn't strong enough for such a big duct system. So I sold the whole set up, for less than half of what I had into it, and finally bought a clearvue, since they are made on Pence's design. This was just this summer past, and I hope that will mark the end of my cycle of DC shortsightedness. Looking back, I'm reminded of the saying "you can't afford to do it right, but you can always afford to do it twice!" .

            I'm not saying you should run out and buy a big clearvue - your needs may be different than mine. But I think you should try to avoid my mistakes - namely, throwing good money after bad because I was too impatient to do the research and too shortsighted of my needs.

            Running 240v circuits is not a mystery. It's really just a thicker line with an extra wire in it hooked up to two breakers instead of one (well, a double breaker actually: 120 + 120 = 240). I've run most of mine myself. If you're not comfortable with that, you can hire an electrician to put some in. It's not that much. You can do surface mounted conduit, so you don't even have to open up your walls or fish line. It would be a real shame to undermine your DC needs now over something as minor as a 240v circuit.

            Hope that helps!
            Last edited by callee; 01-28-2019, 08:27 AM.

            Comment

            • Thread Continues Below...

            • #7

              Re: Dust Collection

              I have two of these units, one with the canister and one with the cloth bag. I have them for my RAS, jointer and planer. I move them around as needed which is not a big problem. The bags do not seal as well as they should all the time. Sometimes it takes some fiddling to get the seal just right. If it is not just right it is quite obvious from the dust blowing out around the bag. The units work best for tools like the jointer and planer where you are dealing with larger pieces of dust or chips. As Callee says they are messy to empty. I am careful to limit the dust and use a vacuum to clean around the edges of the bag and unit when I remove the bag as there is always fine dust around the rim. I am fortunate as I can dump the bags into a treed area so I can re-use them for a long time. The units are not perfect but they do capture a lot of the dust particles while offering a number of advantages like cost and portability. I also have a ceiling mounted filtration unit that captures dust floating in the air. It really helps keep things clean.

              Comment


              • #8

                Re: Dust Collection

                Originally posted by LaPedrera View Post
                Hi all,

                I am considering this specific dust collector from busy bee tools;

                Dust collector

                It will be used for connection to a table saw (rigid R4512) and a dewalt planer, only one at a time and connected to each machine as being used.
                I am a little bit restricted in regards to both space and power considerations (only have 110 - regular outlets at the moment).
                I will certainly be purchasing the hepa canister as well as I understand that the bag filters are both insufficient in particle size.

                Although listed at 825cfm, I suspect the effective cfm will be a little bit less (600 or so?) at the machine connection.

                I do currently have a shop vac with both hepa filter and hepa bags installed, but the cfm is rather low to address the dust from the table saw (planer is not bad at all, probably because it has its own blower built in)

                Any other models recommended or other things to consider that I may have missed.. other models to consider or places to look? Additions? Etc..?

                I am also planning on building an air cleaner (built into a mobile stand for my planer)

                Thanks
                Hi, I suspect it will be under 400CFM based upon my tests a decade ago.

                It's pretty marginal for airflow, the other issue is that on a table saw you need above and below blade dust collection, which means about 600 CFM.........Regards, Rod.
                Work is the curse of the riding class.

                Comment


                • #9

                  Re: Dust Collection

                  Originally posted by Wally in Calgary View Post

                  Do you have a breaker box in the shop??
                  Yes yes.

                  Comment


                  • #10

                    Re: Dust Collection

                    Originally posted by dwoody View Post
                    I have two of these units, one with the canister and one with the cloth bag. I have them for my RAS, jointer and planer. I move them around as needed which is not a big problem. The bags do not seal as well as they should all the time. Sometimes it takes some fiddling to get the seal just right. If it is not just right it is quite obvious from the dust blowing out around the bag. The units work best for tools like the jointer and planer where you are dealing with larger pieces of dust or chips. As Callee says they are messy to empty. I am careful to limit the dust and use a vacuum to clean around the edges of the bag and unit when I remove the bag as there is always fine dust around the rim. I am fortunate as I can dump the bags into a treed area so I can re-use them for a long time. The units are not perfect but they do capture a lot of the dust particles while offering a number of advantages like cost and portability. I also have a ceiling mounted filtration unit that captures dust floating in the air. It really helps keep things clean.
                    I figured that in regards to the planer (no jointer) as I can do pretty well with the shop vac connected to it. Have you installed any weather stripping / gaskets beneath the bag clamps?

                    Emptying the bags will not be an issue for my situation at all.

                    Comment


                    • #11

                      Re: Dust Collection

                      Originally posted by Rod Sheridan View Post

                      Hi, I suspect it will be under 400CFM based upon my tests a decade ago.

                      It's pretty marginal for airflow, the other issue is that on a table saw you need above and below blade dust collection, which means about 600 CFM.........Regards, Rod.
                      It will drop to less that half? I think it may be time to ask busy bee / craftex for some more detailed specifications.

                      Comment

                      • Thread Continues Below...

                      • #12

                        Re: Dust Collection

                        Originally posted by LaPedrera View Post

                        Yes yes.
                        If you have a breaker panel in the shop it should be very easy to drop in a 220 breaker and wire in a 220 receptacle. You will not regret buying the right size the first time as others have noted. I really doubt if there is much difference from the Hepa filter and the CX one. Once it gets a little dust on the inside it will be very efficient. Just my thoughts and they are only for your consideration. .

                        Comment


                        • #13

                          Re: Dust Collection

                          Originally posted by dwoody View Post
                          I have two of these units, one with the canister and one with the cloth bag.
                          Is there a canister filter that is proper for the 404? I have asked Busy Bee a couple times and never gotten a confirmed response.

                          Thx

                          Comment


                          • #14

                            Re: Dust Collection

                            Originally posted by LaPedrera View Post

                            It will drop to less that half? I think it may be time to ask busy bee / craftex for some more detailed specifications.
                            Yes more detailed specification is a step in the right direction. Without getting too technical, simply put there is no such thing as a single number for fan CFM. There is a relationship between fan cfm and fan static pressure called a fan curve. There is also a relationship between system cfm and static pressure (normally called system resistance) called a system curve. Neither are straight line relationships thus they are shown as curves and the fan will operate at the point where the two curves intersect ie the fan will deliver the cfm that causes the system resistance to match the fan static. In simple terms system resistance increases with cfm squared (so 2x cfm will result in 2x2=4 times resistance), the fan relationship is more complicated. The attached is a pretty good explanation. If the manufacturer states the fan cfm as a single number it is probably the blue dot on the curve or maybe where the blue line meets the horizontal axis (ie zero static pressure) but if your system is the red line your fan will produce the cfm at the red dot.




                            http://curta.dlinkddns.com/html_tuto...s/fancurve.htm
                            Last edited by Doug G; 01-28-2019, 12:28 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15

                              Re: Dust Collection

                              Originally posted by EMSbyDay View Post

                              Is there a canister filter that is proper for the 404? I have asked Busy Bee a couple times and never gotten a confirmed response.

                              Thx
                              The filter for that is inactive now. It was CT029CHN. If you measure the ID of your opening there is 2 or 3 That might fit including the Hepa and a cheaper one. I will have further info later on today.

                              Comment

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