Re: Dust collector system

[ehender2]

I have read and re read Bill Pentz several times and each time learn something. One thing I picked up from him and others who discuss it on youtube or elsewhere is that airborne sawdust is deadly and accumulative and every woodshop should have a separate collector collecting the airborne dust. I know the sawdust collector does collect dust as well but a separate dust collector just clearing shop air, even homemade like mine, clears the deadly sawdust out of the air quickly.

[Wood Grower [OP]]

I have read and re read Bill Pentz several times and each time learn something. One thing I picked up from him and others who discuss it on youtube or elsewhere is that airborne sawdust is deadly and accumulative and every woodshop should have a separate collector collecting the airborne dust. I know the sawdust collector does collect dust as well but a separate dust collector just clearing shop air, even homemade like mine, clears the deadly sawdust out of the air quickly.

Yes I have a smaller unit for this now, but no really way to grab up all the sawdust. The filter unit seems to do something decent for air that has dust in it. The less dust the better I figure.

[Wood Grower [OP]]

I think I have made up my mind now what direction I'll head in regarding dust collection. I had two types under consideration then I got these messages about Clearvue and Oneida should be placed under consideration. The ones I was considering are Harvey Gyro Air G700Harvey G, and Grizzly. I had been wanting a General or King Canada or Laguna unit previously. Since I emailed to Harvey and received no response at all they basically are off my list, they are also pretty darn expensive for the numbers it creates. I see the strongest candidate as being Grizzly for a few reasons including they emailed back. The guy that mailed me back says the dust collector is rated to be in a clean room environment they catch most stuff it sucks up. I still have to sort out the sizing of the motor etc but they seem to to exceed fine particulate capture well beyond what I am seeing from other brands. My goal is to have as low as possible dust released out of the unit I buy. I also don't see anyone else even making a series filter being setup and used. It seems like an amazing idea to use series filters. Thanks for the input. A lot of things I wouldn't have even thought about were able to be added into consideration like cyclone height, particulate sizes, etc. Thank you guys.

[QC Inspector]

While Grizzly will probably serve you especially if you don't want to do any extras but you could add a certified HEPA to a Oneida or Clearvue simply by having the DC enclosed in it's own closet (tames the noise) and the returning air passing through a HEPA filter. https://wynnenv.com/products-page/hepa_filters/ Wynn provide Clear Vue with the Merv 15 cartridges they use. Those cartridges are 300 square feet each for a total of 600. The Grizzly have less area with the corresponding back pressure increase. You need to be careful with the filtration numbers quoted by anyone as they often do not say how much of each size is actually filtered. Pretty much any filter will capture .2 micron particles but how many is the key especially if the filter also lets 2.0 micron particles through at the same time. https://www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quali...-merv-rating-1 In the end you will have to balance the costs to your door, efficiency, convenience of the machine to setup and the colour you like best when you make your final decision.

Pete

[Wood Grower [OP]]

While Grizzly will probably serve you especially if you don't want to do any extras but you could add a certified HEPA to a Oneida or Clearvue simply by having the DC enclosed in it's own closet (tames the noise) and the returning air passing through a HEPA filter. https://wynnenv.com/products-page/hepa_filters/ Wynn provide Clear Vue with the Merv 15 cartridges they use. Those cartridges are 300 square feet each for a total of 600. The Grizzly have less area with the corresponding back pressure increase. You need to be careful with the filtration numbers quoted by anyone as they often do not say how much of each size is actually filtered. Pretty much any filter will capture .2 micron particles but how many is the key especially if the filter also lets 2.0 micron particles through at the same time. https://www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quali...-merv-rating-1 In the end you will have to balance the costs to your door, efficiency, convenience of the machine to setup and the colour you like best when you make your final decision.

Pete

Oh frig figures you could do something like build a dust collector room!

Well I think even considering I am still heavily leaning Grizzly. They quote 99.7% at .3 micron

• Filter surface area: 113 sq. ft.
• MERV rating: MERV-17
• Primary filter: 99.9% at 0.2-2 microns
• Secondary filter: HEPA rated 99.97% at 0.3 microns

Mind you that is on a specific one, and I might not buy that specific one, but others seem to have same claimed single pass 99.97% 0.3 micron pass. The noise produced out of the machine might be ideal to have a room to put it in, but then it wouldn't require to be filtered, and wearing a dust mask to enter the room.....


While that is an awful lot of square feet, having a primary filter working in series with a second filter seems like an amazing idea to me.

I don't see clear vue having smaller units I think it was vacuum or 5hp.

Also the overall height of clear vue is rather tall.

I'll sit on this data and revisit but I still feel MERV-17 beats MERV-15.

[Egon]

For the best shop air quality two systems are required. The first provides positive air pressure with controlled evacuation rates to outside atmosphere. It should distribute clean air around the bottom circumference of the shop. Outlets should be placed around the upper circumference of the shop. This maintains room air quality. The other Is Individual collection for each machine that again has an outlet outside at atmospheric pressure. This system operates on a need only basis. Higher pressure greatly aids in the suction bubble around each individual collection intake.

[Wood Grower [OP]]

For the best shop air quality two systems are required. The first provides positive air pressure with controlled evacuation rates to outside atmosphere. It should distribute clean air around the bottom circumference of the shop. Outlets should be placed around the upper circumference of the shop. This maintains room air quality. The other Is Individual collection for each machine that again has an outlet outside at atmospheric pressure. This system operates on a need only basis. Higher pressure greatly aids in the suction bubble around each individual collection intake.

Wow that is a lot. You have a diagram to help explain that?

[Egon]

Wow that is a lot. You have a diagram to help explain that?

Sorry, no diagram. It is pretty simple.

[Wood Grower [OP]]

Sorry, no diagram. It is pretty simple.

OK I'll have to research this, there seem to be many spots air is going in and going out but it isn't exactly clear to me where the air was coming from and going to? It sounds like you were sending air inside to outside the shop and air from outside the shop back inside the shop? I get there are two systems, and that part sounds simple it's just where all the air is going is complicated without seeing something......

[Egon]

Not complicated. You use outside air to pressurize the space and you vent outside at a controlled rate.

[MartyFromKingston]

Here's an article I wrote a number of years back, which may help you out a bit.

When it came to selecting a cyclone for my shop, I went with an Oneida Pro 1500 Series 3hp unit. They no longer offer that model, however it's actually this 5hp model, but with a 3hp motor on it. I have never felt it underpowered and from the air quality readings I've done, it's dealing very well with the dust - which from a health perspective, is more important that chip handling. Perhaps I should mention that the lower ongoing operating costs and smaller amperage draw (I didn't have a very large panel in my old shop) factored into my decision to go with a 3hp motor instead of 5hp. I typically operate with the blast gates open all the time on my tablesaw, jointer and planer and only close one if I'm doing something particularly demanding... such as sanding wide planks with my drum sander.

One important factor to consider is noise. Yes, I understand that the noise generated by your planer, saw, jointer, or whatever other machine you're operating will pretty well require you to wear ear protection. But don't forget that you'll likely not want to be turning your dust collector on and off every time you start/stop a machine, as that's not good for the motor (as an example according to the manual, my Oneida isn't supposed to be turned on and off more than 6 times an hour). And that means that there are times when you'll be keeping it powered up even if no other machines are running. Instead of isolating your dust collector inside a cabinet in your shop to help deaden the sound, you could consider getting one of these sound filters which fit onto the top of your filter. The noise difference before and after installation was dramatic and to my way of thinking, well worth the investment.

[altiplano]

Some will tell you two 45 degree elbows with a short straight section is more efficient than a single elbow but that is incorrect. Look at page 54 of http://www.lorencook.com/PDFs/Catalo...ok_Catalog.pdf and you will see the straight duct length equivalents of elbows of different types.

I'm in the middle of setting up my new shop space and looking for some ideas and came across this.

To be clear though for my understanding, in order to offset a parallel run, 2 45s and the necessary straight section are better than 2 90s.

Such as bringing the main duct run up to ceiling height from the cyclone inlet height.

Also if you have short radius fittings such as your typical hvac elbow, 2 used as 45s would be better than 1 used as a 90. From page 54 of your reference, 1.0 r/d 90 straight duct run equivalent is 37', vs 30' for 2 45s of any r/d.

Hopefully I'm understanding that right as it's how I just set up my offset for my main from the inlet... tough to find larger radius 7" ducting locally so I used 2 elbows as 45s. I think I will have to seal them up tight though ad they seem pretty leaky through the swivelling parts...

[QC Inspector]

Yes you have it right. In the case where you have larger radius 90’s to make a turn it is better. Like where you turn in a corner of a wall or drop from ceiling to floor. Where you are shifting to go over or under something the 45’s have less drag.

Pete

[phil]

I just got a used delta one with one bag and a plastic bag to collect the dust, then for the fine dust that floats around its probably 1/2 or maybe 3/4 HP. my delta needs bags and Ive been wondering where to get strong clear plastic bags for it.

also I use a big oversized furnace blower that blows out through a furnace filter with another 3/4 hp motor. the filter I use is like a 3M pad , quite open, washable, I also pull some filter cloth over it which I change when needed.
i could use more , an overarm guard that collects dust from near the blade would help.

once in a while I need to put big fans blowing out and clean up using my vacuum hooked up backwards or an electric leaf blower and intentionally disturb any dust lying around and let it whoosh out with the big fans. one blowing in one blowing out to create a strong cross draft. I basically mask up and blow all that fine crap outside. I dont have multiple ducts I just move the vac hose where needed. in some cases I use my shop vac too. , connect it to my ROS etc. I still get a lot of dust in my saw cabinet, I put it in cardboard boxes or bags and burn it in my fireplace.

Not the perfect situation but I didn't really want to buy a huge system. Im pretty cramped. If you work with MDF or melamine Id be a bit more careful. I wear a mask as needed too. the furnace blower does kill the dust I leave it going for while after I'm in the shop to clean the air. its not too loud.

[Ed in Leaside]

.. tough to find larger radius 7" ducting locally

I got the 6, 7, & 8" 1.5 R elbows from Don Park (hvac supplies, York Mills & Lesmill).