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  • MartyFromKingston
    replied
    Here's an article I wrote a number of years back, which may help you out a bit.

    When it came to selecting a cyclone for my shop, I went with an Oneida Pro 1500 Series 3hp unit. They no longer offer that model, however it's actually this 5hp model, but with a 3hp motor on it. I have never felt it underpowered and from the air quality readings I've done, it's dealing very well with the dust - which from a health perspective, is more important that chip handling. Perhaps I should mention that the lower ongoing operating costs and smaller amperage draw (I didn't have a very large panel in my old shop) factored into my decision to go with a 3hp motor instead of 5hp. I typically operate with the blast gates open all the time on my tablesaw, jointer and planer and only close one if I'm doing something particularly demanding... such as sanding wide planks with my drum sander.

    One important factor to consider is noise. Yes, I understand that the noise generated by your planer, saw, jointer, or whatever other machine you're operating will pretty well require you to wear ear protection. But don't forget that you'll likely not want to be turning your dust collector on and off every time you start/stop a machine, as that's not good for the motor (as an example according to the manual, my Oneida isn't supposed to be turned on and off more than 6 times an hour). And that means that there are times when you'll be keeping it powered up even if no other machines are running. Instead of isolating your dust collector inside a cabinet in your shop to help deaden the sound, you could consider getting one of these sound filters which fit onto the top of your filter. The noise difference before and after installation was dramatic and to my way of thinking, well worth the investment.


    Last edited by MartyFromKingston; 10-22-2020, 05:38 AM.

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  • Egon
    replied
    Not complicated. You use outside air to pressurize the space and you vent outside at a controlled rate.

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  • Wood Grower
    replied
    Originally posted by Egon View Post

    Sorry, no diagram. It is pretty simple.
    OK I'll have to research this, there seem to be many spots air is going in and going out but it isn't exactly clear to me where the air was coming from and going to? It sounds like you were sending air inside to outside the shop and air from outside the shop back inside the shop? I get there are two systems, and that part sounds simple it's just where all the air is going is complicated without seeing something......

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  • Egon
    replied
    Originally posted by Wood Grower View Post

    Wow that is a lot. You have a diagram to help explain that?
    Sorry, no diagram. It is pretty simple.

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  • Wood Grower
    replied
    Originally posted by Egon View Post
    For the best shop air quality two systems are required. The first provides positive air pressure with controlled evacuation rates to outside atmosphere. It should distribute clean air around the bottom circumference of the shop. Outlets should be placed around the upper circumference of the shop. This maintains room air quality. The other Is Individual collection for each machine that again has an outlet outside at atmospheric pressure. This system operates on a need only basis. Higher pressure greatly aids in the suction bubble around each individual collection intake.
    Wow that is a lot. You have a diagram to help explain that?

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  • Egon
    replied
    For the best shop air quality two systems are required. The first provides positive air pressure with controlled evacuation rates to outside atmosphere. It should distribute clean air around the bottom circumference of the shop. Outlets should be placed around the upper circumference of the shop. This maintains room air quality. The other Is Individual collection for each machine that again has an outlet outside at atmospheric pressure. This system operates on a need only basis. Higher pressure greatly aids in the suction bubble around each individual collection intake.

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  • Wood Grower
    replied
    Originally posted by QC Inspector View Post
    While Grizzly will probably serve you especially if you don't want to do any extras but you could add a certified HEPA to a Oneida or Clearvue simply by having the DC enclosed in it's own closet (tames the noise) and the returning air passing through a HEPA filter. https://wynnenv.com/products-page/hepa_filters/ Wynn provide Clear Vue with the Merv 15 cartridges they use. Those cartridges are 300 square feet each for a total of 600. The Grizzly have less area with the corresponding back pressure increase. You need to be careful with the filtration numbers quoted by anyone as they often do not say how much of each size is actually filtered. Pretty much any filter will capture .2 micron particles but how many is the key especially if the filter also lets 2.0 micron particles through at the same time. https://www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quali...-merv-rating-1 In the end you will have to balance the costs to your door, efficiency, convenience of the machine to setup and the colour you like best when you make your final decision.

    Pete
    Oh frig figures you could do something like build a dust collector room!

    Well I think even considering I am still heavily leaning Grizzly. They quote 99.7% at .3 micron
    • Filter surface area: 113 sq. ft.
    • MERV rating: MERV-17
    • Primary filter: 99.9% at 0.2-2 microns
    • Secondary filter: HEPA rated 99.97% at 0.3 microns
    Mind you that is on a specific one, and I might not buy that specific one, but others seem to have same claimed single pass 99.97% 0.3 micron pass. The noise produced out of the machine might be ideal to have a room to put it in, but then it wouldn't require to be filtered, and wearing a dust mask to enter the room.....


    While that is an awful lot of square feet, having a primary filter working in series with a second filter seems like an amazing idea to me.

    I don't see clear vue having smaller units I think it was vacuum or 5hp.

    Also the overall height of clear vue is rather tall.

    I'll sit on this data and revisit but I still feel MERV-17 beats MERV-15.

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  • QC Inspector
    replied
    While Grizzly will probably serve you especially if you don't want to do any extras but you could add a certified HEPA to a Oneida or Clearvue simply by having the DC enclosed in it's own closet (tames the noise) and the returning air passing through a HEPA filter. https://wynnenv.com/products-page/hepa_filters/ Wynn provide Clear Vue with the Merv 15 cartridges they use. Those cartridges are 300 square feet each for a total of 600. The Grizzly have less area with the corresponding back pressure increase. You need to be careful with the filtration numbers quoted by anyone as they often do not say how much of each size is actually filtered. Pretty much any filter will capture .2 micron particles but how many is the key especially if the filter also lets 2.0 micron particles through at the same time. https://www.epa.gov/indoor-air-quali...-merv-rating-1 In the end you will have to balance the costs to your door, efficiency, convenience of the machine to setup and the colour you like best when you make your final decision.

    Pete

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  • Wood Grower
    replied
    I think I have made up my mind now what direction I'll head in regarding dust collection. I had two types under consideration then I got these messages about Clearvue and Oneida should be placed under consideration. The ones I was considering are Harvey Gyro Air G700Harvey G, and Grizzly. I had been wanting a General or King Canada or Laguna unit previously. Since I emailed to Harvey and received no response at all they basically are off my list, they are also pretty darn expensive for the numbers it creates. I see the strongest candidate as being Grizzly for a few reasons including they emailed back. The guy that mailed me back says the dust collector is rated to be in a clean room environment they catch most stuff it sucks up. I still have to sort out the sizing of the motor etc but they seem to to exceed fine particulate capture well beyond what I am seeing from other brands. My goal is to have as low as possible dust released out of the unit I buy. I also don't see anyone else even making a series filter being setup and used. It seems like an amazing idea to use series filters. Thanks for the input. A lot of things I wouldn't have even thought about were able to be added into consideration like cyclone height, particulate sizes, etc. Thank you guys.

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  • Wood Grower
    replied
    Originally posted by ehender2 View Post
    I have read and re read Bill Pentz several times and each time learn something. One thing I picked up from him and others who discuss it on youtube or elsewhere is that airborne sawdust is deadly and accumulative and every woodshop should have a separate collector collecting the airborne dust. I know the sawdust collector does collect dust as well but a separate dust collector just clearing shop air, even homemade like mine, clears the deadly sawdust out of the air quickly.
    Yes I have a smaller unit for this now, but no really way to grab up all the sawdust. The filter unit seems to do something decent for air that has dust in it. The less dust the better I figure.

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  • ehender2
    replied
    I have read and re read Bill Pentz several times and each time learn something. One thing I picked up from him and others who discuss it on youtube or elsewhere is that airborne sawdust is deadly and accumulative and every woodshop should have a separate collector collecting the airborne dust. I know the sawdust collector does collect dust as well but a separate dust collector just clearing shop air, even homemade like mine, clears the deadly sawdust out of the air quickly.

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  • nnieman
    replied
    I run my 600 sq foot woodworking shop with an older Oneida cyclone with a 3 hp blower.
    20” planer, 14” jointer shaper, bandsaw & table saw.
    I also have an edge sander and spindle sander.
    I have never bothered to hook up drill press, lathe or mortiser.

    5” mains with 4” drops.
    My machines are grouped together to make dc and electrical runs simpler.

    Chop saw and sanders get hooked up to a shop vac.

    Nathan

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  • altiplano
    replied
    Lots of good info here.

    Bigger is usually better, certainly 5hp Oneida or Clearvue systems would future proof all a typical hobby shop might ever want. If I bought a cyclone today, without budget or height constraints, that is what I would buy.

    That said there are some very good cyclones in the the slightly smaller range which can be utilised effectively and reasonably well with planning in a typical hobby shop. I'm thinking a 3hp or possibly 2hp Oneida. Somewhat cheaper to buy and run, and depending on model possibly smaller. Felder RL series dust collectors could be worth looking at too if cyclone height didn't fit in your space. I believe they are 4hp.

    So if you decide the 5hp models don't work for you for whatever reason, there are other good options. I would avoid at all costs the typical felt bag, chip collecting, dust pump though.

    Good luck.luc

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  • QC Inspector
    replied
    Clear Vue cyclones have been mounted on an angle to get them to fit in low ceilings or in an attic space. There are companies making horizontal cyclones but I don't think they are quite as efficient as a vertical and they are a lot more money. I asked a salesman and when he found out I was comparing to a Clear Vue he wouldn't quote. https://www.dustcollectorhq.com/dust...ust-collector/

    Pete

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  • Wood Grower
    replied
    Originally posted by QC Inspector View Post
    What you are describing puts you in a 2 car garage equivalent or bigger space, if not now, eventually, and if you want to collect the fine dust you want a larger DC system. In that case I would suggest you look into a Clear Vue (Stockroom sell them) or Oneida 5hp cyclone. They have longer cone cyclones that are more efficient at separation and have or can have more filter area. The short cyclones like the Laguna are not as efficient at separation so more goes to the filters, which is why they have to have the automatic cleaning paddles. Problem with that is at some point they will start to wear holes in them and they do not have a large area of filter. Clear Vue have 600 square feet. The only plus to one is they are shorter and can fit under lower ceilings but there are ways around that. They are, at least here, more expensive than the Clear Vue. The downside to any large DC is the noise so if you want to converse with someone while it is on you'll need to enclose it in a soundproof room/closet with a labyrinth or other muffled air return to the shop. With warm weather you can bypass the filters and vent directly outside.

    You are going to need to run 6" ducting (possibly bigger) all the way to the machines with elbows of 1r or larger. Some will tell you two 45 degree elbows with a short straight section is more efficient than a single elbow but that is incorrect. Look at page 54 of http://www.lorencook.com/PDFs/Catalo...ok_Catalog.pdf and you will see the straight duct length equivalents of elbows of different types. Here is a calculator that you can play with to see how much variations in layout or elbow choices can change the static pressure losses and affect the velocities in the ducts. Hose will need to be calculated separately and added to the type of rigid duct you pick. http://www.freecalc.com/ductloss.htm

    The forum with the best section on dust collection I have found is Australian. The stickies at the top have a lot of good info as do the threads through out. https://www.woodworkforums.com/f200

    Others will have different opinions so it is up to you to do the research and make your choices.

    Pete
    OK good to know information about the height of the cyclone. I wasn't overly aware there was a large difference there, but I suppose the more swirling you do the harder it is for dust to hang on for the ride and drop out. I will have to add this into considerations! Thank you.

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