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  • Setup question.

    So I've been tweaking my DC system and would appreciate any thoughts...

    I have a GI 1.5 HP bag type unit. I also have a Veritas cyclone lid on a 44 gallon container that I recently hooked up to reduce the need to empty the bag as often.

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    I don't have any permanent ducting just a 10' flex I move from machine to machine. My collection from my jointer and planer is pretty good I think, but at my tablesaw it kinda lacks. My saw is a job site style saw on a gravity stand similar to this:

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    I put plywood underneath to close the area off. It has a hookup for a shop vac, but that doesn't work well with a reducer on the 4" flex hose so I have just been clamping the 4" hose to the back over the dust port and the space around it.

    Yesterday I thought I'd improve it so cut a hole in the bottom ply to accommodate a hvac piece similar to a register hook up right under the blade, and reduced that to the 4" duct going to the can, I plugged up most of the holes around the sides too.

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    This morning I fired it up and ripped some scrap to test it out. I thought I'd notice an improvement. While I don't see many chips accumulated in the 'cabinet' because they go straight into the pick up (before it was pretty much full on the bottom), I feel like there is more dust on the top of the table... I guess I've lost some airspeed with my change 4" expanding to a 6" fitting? At any rate, it needs more tweaking.

    I have 6" duct from the impeller to the cyclone lid then 4". The cyclone lid is pretty nice with the jointer and planer, but the tablesaw doesn't produce as much waste so I don't mind bypassing it and emptying the bag more if it will make an improvement.

    If I split that 6" and put in blast gates before the lid to have a seperate line 6" line just for the tablesaw I should see less static loss, but would there be much improvement? Maybe my dust pick up underneath a flawed idea?

    Any suggestions on improving my setup appreciated.
  • Thread Continues Below...

  • #2

    Re: Setup question.

    Re: Setup question.

    I think tablesaws are one of those tools that you really wont see good DC results until you have both over and under-blade collection.

    Comment


    • #3

      Re: Setup question.

      Re: Setup question.

      Yeah, over the table DC is a big want of mine, I won't do it now on this saw though as it is what it is and it ain't much, so I don't want to drop to many bucks into retrofitting/upgrading it. One day when my workshop isn't in a basement I'll get a new saw with proper DC - till then though I want to make this work as best I can. Thus I was surprised and disappointed that collection performance seemed reduced with the change I made.

      Comment


      • #4

        Re: Setup question.

        Re: Setup question.

        A thing to remember is that you need to move air to collect the dust. Putting a zero clearance insert around the blade (or just having a small amount of clearance around it) can reduce the airflow from the top and the dust will not be moved into the collection area. Plugging up extraneous holes can be both a good or a bad idea. If there is plenty of openings for good air flow that captures and directs the dust to the hose then that is ideal. If there isn't and you plug up the other holes you may not have enough air for good flow to your collector. However, your description doesn't seem to indicate this is an issue but it is something to be aware of.

        billh

        Comment


        • #5

          Re: Setup question.

          Re: Setup question.

          Originally posted by billh View Post
          Putting a zero clearance insert around the blade (or just having a small amount of clearance around it) can reduce the airflow from the top and the dust will not be moved into the collection area.
          That's what improved my dust collection dramatically.
          It's not ideal but I think I'm getting about 90% less dust in the air.
          In order to understand recursion, one must first understand recursion

          Comment


          • #6

            Re: Setup question.

            Re: Setup question.

            Thanks for the reply Bill.

            There are still lots of spaces for new air to move in, the setup at the saw is far from tight. But I suspect my issue is loss of air velocity to capture the dust as the 4" expands to 6" just outside the tool and then expands more in the pickup and 'cabinet' area...

            That's why I thought 6" all the way to the saw will get rid of the drag caused by the 4" duct and cyclone lid. But I've never actually used 6" duct except the bit right where it connects to the impeller. Is my 1.5 hp unit too underpowered to move enough velocity through 6" duct? Should I just stick with 4" and put a 4" collar instead of the larger pickup to get the airspeed closer to the saw blade?

            Also is the benefit with the cyclone lid reducing dust to the filter worth the loss of air at the saw itself? For the jointer/planer it's convenience, maybe not so much an issue with the saw though if no other benefit...

            I've read so much about dust collection the past couple days I suppose I've started to confuse myself.

            Comment

            • Thread Continues Below...

            • #7

              Re: Setup question.

              Re: Setup question.

              Darius do you mean you got rid of the zero clearance and got 90% better collection?
              Last edited by altiplano; 11-14-2014, 05:15 PM.

              Comment


              • #8

                Re: Setup question.

                Re: Setup question.

                Originally posted by altiplano View Post
                Darius do you mean you got rid of the zero clearance and got 90% better collection?
                No, I actually see less dust coming through the ZC than with the stock plate.
                I also blocked the back and the bottom of my TS as much as I could. I have the Ridgid TS3650
                In order to understand recursion, one must first understand recursion

                Comment


                • #9

                  Re: Setup question.

                  Re: Setup question.

                  Originally posted by darius View Post
                  No, I actually see less dust coming through the ZC than with the stock plate.
                  I also blocked the back and the bottom of my TS as much as I could. I have the Ridgid TS3650
                  Any pics? Extra txt

                  Comment


                  • #10

                    Re: Setup question.

                    Re: Setup question.

                    Thanks Darius. I think I will do more gap filling as well.

                    Comment


                    • #11

                      Re: Setup question.

                      Re: Setup question.

                      Originally posted by altiplano View Post
                      Thanks for the reply Bill. ...


                      Also is the benefit with the cyclone lid reducing dust to the filter worth the loss of air at the saw itself? For the jointer/planer it's convenience, maybe not so much an issue with the saw though if no other benefit...

                      ...
                      I have a cyclone lid but I only gate it into the system for the jointer/planer. It takes a lot of TS dust to equal a minute of jointer/planer shavings.

                      billh

                      Comment

                      • Thread Continues Below...

                      • #12

                        Re: Setup question.

                        Re: Setup question.

                        Originally posted by callee View Post
                        Any pics? Extra txt
                        Gimme a few minutes.
                        I'm kinda sluggish after surgery.
                        In order to understand recursion, one must first understand recursion

                        Comment


                        • #13

                          Re: Setup question.

                          Re: Setup question.

                          OK, I took some quick pictures.

                          The bottom is blocked by a dust collection adapter called "big gulp". I removed the stock dust blocking plate - the plastic thing.

                          The back, as you see is not super tight but the difference between this and nothing is significant. The ZC is not really zero anymore ad the saw hasn't been been cleaned since May this year. What you see is mostly the result of some plywood and dimensional lumber cuts I needed to make concrete forms. I didn't even use the DC for those cuts. In fact, I didn't do any "real" woodworking this year at all.

                          The back, as presented, doesn't allow for angled cuts so it needs to be removed for those. Not a big deal for me, though it could be redesigned to allow for the blade's angle movement, but at the cost of increased dust spitting out in the back. One way of remediation would be to close most gaps with pairs of "self closing" rubber based strips (like door sweeps) or dense brush strips.

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                          As with most ad hoc projects, I plan to improve upon them but rarely do I find time before there is another ad hoc project I need to take care of.

                          Hope this helps.
                          In order to understand recursion, one must first understand recursion

                          Comment


                          • #14

                            Re: Setup question.

                            Re: Setup question.

                            Originally posted by billh View Post
                            I have a cyclone lid but I only gate it into the system for the jointer/planer. It takes a lot of TS dust to equal a minute of jointer/planer shavings.

                            billh
                            Exactly what I was thinking. Glad it doesn't seem out of sorts.

                            Comment


                            • #15

                              Re: Setup question.

                              Re: Setup question.

                              Darius, thanks for the pics. My fitting is maybe more a small gulp, but in the same area. I used duct tape to block off the gaps, but perhaps similar to what you have. Seems I'm on the right track at least. Cheers.

                              Comment

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