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Is anyone familiar with the DustFX Cyclonic DC?

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  • #16

    Re: Is anyone familiar with the DustFX Cyclonic DC?

    Re: Is anyone familiar with the DustFX Cyclonic DC?

    Originally posted by Rod Johnston View Post

    I really need to hear from someone who actually owns and uses one before I can comfortably entertain buying one.

    Cheers.
    Hi Rod, I wouldn't even consider buying one until you receive a system performance curve, which is the first step in determining if it can even work with your equipment/installation.

    After that, you can worry about filtration and separation efficiency..........Regards, Rod.
    Work is the curse of the riding class.

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    • #17

      Re: Is anyone familiar with the DustFX Cyclonic DC?

      Re: Is anyone familiar with the DustFX Cyclonic DC?

      Ron, John & All,

      Many ask my opinion of the squat and cone shaped cyclones. I don’t like or recommend either for many reasons.

      1. These measure with even higher overhead than traditional cyclones, so trying to power one of these on a regular dust collector blower ends up with such bad airflow we don’t even collect sawdust and chips well. The major firms who guarantee customer air quality found we need at least a 3 hp dust collector or 4.2 hp cyclone to move ample air to get good fine dust collection. Cyclones need more power than dust collectors because it takes a lot of work to force air into the tight separation spiral inside a cyclone. Without the extra power a cyclone kills the airflow we need for good collection.

      2. These squat shaped cyclones don’t have ample settle area so they don’t separate as well as traditional cyclones. Except for odd shaped pieces, traditional cyclones separate off the larger chips and sawdust particles then blow the airborne dust away outside. Things like airborne dust, long shavings, strings, and weird shaped pieces act like sails and get blown right through. OSHA testing shows airborne dust makes up about 15% of the total weight of debris made during woodworking and these odd shaped chips make up another roughly 2%, so the best traditional cyclones only provide about 83% efficiency by weight. The magazine testing found the worst of these squat and cone shaped cyclones only provide 55% by weight separation and the best which without my permission copy the tilted inlet, helical baffle, and cone dimensions from my design still only get 78% separation efficiency.

      Why would you want to put one quarter of what you collect into your filters? This makes for a lot of cleaning and will quickly ruin your filters. Airborne wood dust particles are covered with razor sharp edges and points that destroy filters, especially when cleaning. Large facilities who filter with traditional cyclones on average must replace filters every three months. Bottom line, I strongly recommend you save up and then either build or buy a cyclone of my design. Certified independent medical school testing shows unlike traditional cyclones my design separates off 83.33% of the airborne dust by weight and virtually of the sized particles that do the most damage to our filters. As a result some have been using the same filters with no problems for more than ten years.

      I suggest you not get overwhelmed and forget your goal is to protect yourself and those close to you from fine dust. I strongly recommend good fine dust collection and my web pages share how, but until you can install good fine dust collection it is easy and affordable to get good fine dust protection. The best protection is to wear a good properly fit dual cartridge NIOSH approved respirator mask and make sure we don't build up lots of fine dust. The best way to avoid fine dust build up is to vent our cyclones and dust collectors outside and work with our main doors open a bit and a strong fan blowing out a side door or window to create a good airflow through our shops. Our particle counters show for best protection we need to put on our respirator mask and start venting our shop before we start making fine dust and both the mask and fan need to stay on for about a half hour after we stop making fine dust .I recommend you do this venting outside until you can either build or buy a cyclone. Then, step up to a cyclone that moves enough air to get good fine dust collection and don’t forget it will not work unless you also upgrade tool hoods, have good ducting, and a good filter.

      Hazards: Sawdust and chips pose a fire hazard, can hide sharp fast moving cutters, can cause us to slip, and pose some risk of explosion. This is why most U.S. cities choose to implement the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) standards for the collection, storage and disposal of sawdust and chips. In addition to these problems some woods carry toxic chemicals in and on wood that can cause irritation, poisoning, neural damage, cause us to build allergic reactions, and even increase our risks of some cancers. In the 1960s medical researchers also found that all fine airborne dusts also damage our respiratory tissues. Fine dust consists of particles sized under 10-microns which are so fine and light they are invisible without magnification, can stay airborne for a long time and get right by our bodies’ natural protections. Fine wood dusts contain razor sharp edges and sharp often barbed points that damage our respiratory tissues and cause scaring. Unless you have a toxic or allergic reaction the damage caused by fine is so little with each exposure most don’t notice problems for years, then accumulated damage leads to COPD and worsens all kinds of health problems, particularly age related diseases. These problems are so bad that the EPA sets tough air quality standards that only allow 0.1 milligrams of fine dust per cubic meter of air.

      Challenge: Most small shop vendors sell traditional dust collection equipment that only addresses the larger particles. They add finer filters to their existing cyclones and dust collectors and pretend that this provides good collection. Unfortunately, that does not work and those firms who guarantee customer air quality found to get good fine dust collection we also need to move about three times as much air, use larger ducting, use better hoods and much finer filters or just vent outside. This makes getting good fine dust collection difficult and expensive. The problem is woodworking and many other small shop activities create huge amounts of fine invisible dust particles compared to how little it takes to create dangerously unhealthy air. Because wood dust takes nearly forever to break down unless it gets wet, in most small shops the fine invisible dust just keeps building and building. An average two-car garage sized small shop contains about 92 cubic meters of air which I round up to 100 cubic meters to make the math easy. That means when more than 10 milligrams of fine dust gets launched airborne a typical 100 cubic meter shop fails its EPA 0.1 milligram per cubic meter air quality test. This is not much dust. We get this much dust from slapping a dusty shop apron, making a long shaving with a razor sharp hand plane, or hand sawing just over seven inches of three-quarter inch thick wood. Worse our particle counters also show most of our exposure comes from fugitive dust which is previously made dust that escaped collection. Wood dusts last years unless they get wet. Our particle counters show most small shops that vent their vacuums, dust collectors and cyclones inside are so contaminated with fine invisible dust that just walking around without doing any woodworking stirs enough fugitive dust airborne to fail an EPA air quality test.

      Volumes: Many small shop activities, particularly woodworking make huge amounts of fine dust compared to how little it takes to create dangerous air quality. OSHA testing shows with every twenty pounds of sawdust we make 5 1/3 ounces of fine dust particles which is about 151,197 milligrams. Since it only takes 10 milligrams going airborne to cause an average sized shop to fail an EPA air quality test, every twenty pounds of sawdust makes enough fine dust to cause 15,119 average sized shops to fail their EPA air quality test. Just missing 1% of this dust means for every twenty pounds of sawdust we make we launch enough fine dust to cause 151 typical two-car garage sized shops to fail their EPA air quality tests. Our particle meters show even working with hand tools and making no visible dust still makes huge amounts of fine invisible dust.

      Hope this helps and sorry for the slow response. I’m buried with dust collection emails, plus struggling with a kitchen melt down. Slow leak behind the built in fridge forced pulling the appliances, cabinets, sheet rock, and insulation. Don’t have the body to make repair now and skills are pretty dated as last built cabinets in the late sixties.

      bill
      Last edited by Bill Pentz; 11-22-2014, 12:36 PM.

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      • #18

        Re: Is anyone familiar with the DustFX Cyclonic DC?

        Re: Is anyone familiar with the DustFX Cyclonic DC?

        I for one appreciate the contribution of Bill Penz to the woodworkers at large by bringing the awareness about dust hazards and a good design of DC that has helped many (including me).
        Remember, we are here to share, learn, and enjoy. Relax.

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        • #19

          Re: Is anyone familiar with the DustFX Cyclonic DC?

          Re: Is anyone familiar with the DustFX Cyclonic DC?

          Once again Thanx Bill your time and your input is always appreciated, sorry to hear about your kitchen melt down, never a dull moment when you own a house.

          John

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          • #20

            Re: Is anyone familiar with the DustFX Cyclonic DC?

            Re: Is anyone familiar with the DustFX Cyclonic DC?

            Thanks, Bill. I didn't realize the volume of sub 10 micron dust generated in traditional woodworking. My Dylos does validate your info as it doesn't take much stirring around to spike the meter. Even with a large volume impeller and nano filters there are just times when you need to leave the shop and let the filters run. My four Nano will clean the air to better than house quality but it takes time. Ambients take forever, and moving 2000 cfm in my DC still can take 30 minutes to clear a 2000 sq ft shop. Dave

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            • #21

              Re: Is anyone familiar with the DustFX Cyclonic DC?

              Re: Is anyone familiar with the DustFX Cyclonic DC?

              Thank you all for your input and especially to you Bill for your detailed and instructive reply. I clearly have a lot of research to do before deciding on which DC to purchase (or build)!

              Thanks again.

              Cheers.

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