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  • #16

    Re: What are your DC CFM's

    Re: What are your DC CFM's

    Matt, I have a 1.5 HP Oneida with a HEPA cartridge filter...........Rod,
    Work is the curse of the riding class.

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    • #17

      Re: What are your DC CFM's

      Re: What are your DC CFM's

      Originally posted by Matt Matt View Post
      This is what I like reading!!! Thanks Dave !

      I have read all that Pentz has written(maybe twice). it is nice to hear others experiences, tests and trials. The device I am using only has a 6000 feet/min max capacity. At three inches from a 5" port trough 12' of flex and 15' metal ducting hit 6000f/m. I want to get a end of pipe reading that is accurate and within the devices limits. I do need to enlarge the end intake and rid of any turbulences and have air stream uniform to measure. Based on the bucket test my 6" port off at 16' main(no hose) I would have almost (from the highest reading) 11000f/m calculated up. Well more to try.
      So Matt, you have put a lot of work into your design. Why not put a proportionate amount onto validation? It is a bit of up front work, but heck if your impeller will pull an extra 400-500 cfm though a 6" pipe you might have an opportunity! Do all of this in silence for now, prove it an call a patent lawyer. Seriously.
      The ClearVue (Bill Pentz) cyclone is proven, the motor is good (TEFC is nice but required - not essentail), so the impeller is all that is left. I have the canned 15" impeller. If I had to throw it out for a $300.00 retrofit, no problem. I will save that in filters over 10-15 years. I have no doubt in my mind that the Pentz design will perform better at higher rates. Max the cyclone, everything else falls into place.

      So do the real test as per the Bill Pentz guideline.

      Don

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      • #18

        Re: What are your DC CFM's

        Re: What are your DC CFM's

        Here is an update. From my longest run through about 15 feet of 6 inch metal ducting reduced to a 5 inch blast gate through 12 feet of 5" flex through the 5 gallon bucket and then through a 10.5" ID sono tube 8 feet long, I was getting between 2150 and 2300 feet per minute airspeed. So now my new calculation is a wee bit under my original test. To provide me with me with 2200 feet per minute in a 10.5 inch tube, that airspeed would be 6730'/m at that 5" port or 1325 CFM. Tomorrow I am testing the 6" and 1.5"



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        For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
        Sir Isaac Newton.

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        • #19

          Re: What are your DC CFM's

          Re: What are your DC CFM's

          Here is a link to my thread on the measurements of my dust collection system. https://forum.canadianwoodworking.co...lection-system

          Mine draws 2192 cfm @ 3.6" of static pressure and 6250 fpm in a 8" diameter duct. That's with a 16" impeller and a 5 hp Leeson motor drawing 18.5 amps at those measurements.

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          • #20

            Re: What are your DC CFM's

            Re: What are your DC CFM's

            Originally posted by Alan Bienlein View Post
            Here is a link to my thread on the measurements of my dust collection system. https://forum.canadianwoodworking.co...lection-system

            Mine draws 2192 cfm @ 3.6" of static pressure and 6250 fpm in a 8" diameter duct. That's with a 16" impeller and a 5 hp Leeson motor drawing 18.5 amps at those measurements.
            Thanks Alan. You have one neat sys. Thanks for posting.
            For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
            Sir Isaac Newton.

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            • #21

              Re: What are your DC CFM's

              Re: What are your DC CFM's

              Matt, are your filters tied in yet and what are you using? Dave

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              • #22

                Re: What are your DC CFM's

                Re: What are your DC CFM's

                Originally posted by beckerkumm View Post
                Matt, are your filters tied in yet and what are you using? Dave
                I am using two =>Baldwin RS 3534. The cyclone has gone through close to 450 gallons of chips. The filters seem pretty clean still but at this point I would consider them somewhat soiled. They still look immaculately clean to my naked eye.

                All the information I have on my filter is that it is ISO 5011 certified. I was told it was around 1 µm but that's hearsay. This is the only information I have.
                http://www.billswebspace.com/AirFilterTest.htm


                http://catalog.baldwinfilter.com/startproductguide.html


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                Last edited by Matt Matt; 12-14-2014, 12:39 AM.
                For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
                Sir Isaac Newton.

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                • #23

                  Re: What are your DC CFM's

                  Re: What are your DC CFM's

                  What cfm are the filters rated for? You must be close to the edge. Your numbers are very good. Best I've seen with a 5 hp motor and 6" pipe. My 5" port is only slightly better at 1300+ cfm but only drops to 1100 when the second 5" port is opened so there may be a difference there. I'm running four nano filters but have a less than ideal entrance into them so likely some additional resistance that could be fixed if I had ambition. Dave

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                  • #24

                    Re: What are your DC CFM's

                    Re: What are your DC CFM's

                    Originally posted by beckerkumm View Post
                    What cfm are the filters rated for? You must be close to the edge. Your numbers are very good. Best I've seen with a 5 hp motor and 6" pipe. My 5" port is only slightly better at 1300+ cfm but only drops to 1100 when the second 5" port is opened so there may be a difference there. I'm running four nano filters but have a less than ideal entrance into them so likely some additional resistance that could be fixed if I had ambition. Dave
                    The filters tested ( are 12 9/32 x 9 23/32 x 2 5/16) at 350 to 400 CFM. Baldwin advertises that they can handle 2 to 3 times that CFM if not too heavily soiled. The filter that I have has about 110 ft.˛ filtration area each, which I have to two. I might be pushing the limits. I should probably be running three filters but the cyclone seems to be so efficient I don't see a need yet. Tomorrow if I motivated enough I will as well check with manometer closed and open ports to get SP. Right now I'm a little scared for Max SP in a closed system as I have no clue how much head pressure to expect. I have read that most shop-vacs can exceed 100 inches and I think I'm safe to say that I am less than that and I better be, as I only possibly might have 84 inches to play with. LOL. I'll keep playing....
                    Last edited by Matt Matt; 12-14-2014, 09:16 AM.
                    For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
                    Sir Isaac Newton.

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                    • #25

                      Re: What are your DC CFM's

                      Re: What are your DC CFM's

                      Yes, I'd add just to keep the pressure down so the fines don't drive into the media. More sq footage slows the velocity and allows the filters to lightly surface load so compressed air on the outside will knock dust off easily. As SP, my go to source are the Cincinnati fan tables, PB, or SPB. Their 18x4.375" Backward curved impeller with a 6" entry produces 1118 cfm at 16" SP, the 16.5x5 with 8" is 737 at 16" ( no 6" listed ). Diameter means more than depth so yours should be close to the 18". Housings and design make some difference but I've looked at the Chicago and New york fan tables and they all seem to deliver similar results. I figure the DC systems run in the 8-16" SP range. Dave

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                      • #26

                        Re: What are your DC CFM's

                        Re: What are your DC CFM's

                        Well today I tested out the 6 inch line through the same sono tube and the 10.5 sono tube is yielding 2850 to 3300 feet per minute with an average of 3050fpm. Since my 6 inch flex hose is attached to 10.5 inch ID sono tube the co-relationship is 3.06 times.


                        So basically I am getting 9333 FPM at my machine port. This would equal 1834 CFM. This equals out to 367 cubic feet per horsepower at 19.5 amp draw. I guess this is where Clearview is coming up 1800


                        Now I did a secondary test and only testing the six-inch port with another 5 inch port open simultaneously. The 6 inch port was yielding only 7200 FPM or 1415 CFM in this situation.
                        For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
                        Sir Isaac Newton.

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                        • #27

                          Re: What are your DC CFM's

                          Re: What are your DC CFM's

                          Matt, is the 5" port also on the same 6" line? If so the numbers with both open should only be slightly more than with only the 6" port when added together. CV runs an 18" diameter cyclone which where i think the number comes from. Their 15" impeller won't pull 1800 cfm through a 6" main. Dave

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                          • #28

                            Re: What are your DC CFM's

                            Re: What are your DC CFM's

                            If memory serves me right the CV1800 was designed to pull a minimum of 1400 CFM through a 6" line and the CV 1800 Max was designed to pull a minimum of 1800 CFM through an 8" main line. My testing in the winter time with my CV1800 with very well seasoned filters yielded a reading of 1500 CFM through 6" pipe about 5' from the collector and 1000 CFM at the furthest point in the system about 65' from the collector. Matt I was using the same hand held unit you are using and it was just calibrated.

                            John

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                            • #29

                              Re: What are your DC CFM's

                              Re: What are your DC CFM's

                              The CV 1800 was designed for a minimum of 1000 cfm through 6" pipe. John, your example shows how the resistance of 6" drops the cfm over distance. Every gate leaks a little too so that affects the numbers. Dave

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                              • #30

                                Re: What are your DC CFM's

                                Re: What are your DC CFM's

                                Originally posted by John JMK View Post
                                If memory serves me right the CV1800 was designed to pull a minimum of 1400 CFM through a 6" line and the CV 1800 Max was designed to pull a minimum of 1800 CFM through an 8" main line. My testing in the winter time with my CV1800 with very well seasoned filters yielded a reading of 1500 CFM through 6" pipe about 5' from the collector and 1000 CFM at the furthest point in the system about 65' from the collector. Matt I was using the same hand held unit you are using and it was just calibrated.

                                John
                                Thanks John for the share. 65' of main I would have my whole shop perimeter surrounded back to the cyclone.
                                For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
                                Sir Isaac Newton.

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