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  • Had a problem with cyclone motor kicking off

    I thought I'd share a problem I recently encountered with my Oneida cyclone dust collector shutting itself down after operating for anything more than 5 minutes. Of course this problem appeared right in the middle of a project where I didn't have the luxury to stop... so I reset the starter (press the red button twice, then hit the green start button) and it'd start up right away... then shut itself off in about 5 minutes. I've had the machine for 5 years now and it's always worked flawlessly and performed extremely well, in both my current shop (the last 3 years) and my previous shop (the first 2 years). I contacted the Oneida folks and after a bit of discussion, was requested to check the amperage draw to see if it was too high for the motor to safely handle. Being less than knowledgeable in the electronics department, I elected first to explore if there was anything physical which could be causing this problem.

    I started first with a physical check of the impeller. I removed the barrel, lay down on the floor and looked up through the cone. No chunks of wood nor objects were observable. I then briefly (a few seconds) turned on, then off the machine and a few minutes later when the motor had slowed down, I took another look just to see if the impeller was rotating freely and in the correct direction. Again, nothing appeared to be out of the ordinary.

    I then removed the filter... and bingo! It was so fully clogged with super fine dust that I was pretty sure there was very little air movement going on. It took quite a while for me to knock the dust off (laid the filter on its side on my bench and smacked the sides with the palm of my hand) with my shop vac hose inside to draw away much of the dust that was falling down. I then set the filter on its end and using my air compressor set to 80 psi, directed the blast at the outside of the filter, starting at the top and working my way down. I repeated this until I saw that the filter was again clean.

    I remounted the filter and the dust barrel, then turned the dc back on. The performance appeared to have improved, but more important, the machine was no longer kicking off.

    I'm planning to let the good folks at Oneida know what I've done and hope that by sharing my experience with them and with you folks here, it'll help others who may encounter a similar problem.
    All the best,

    Marty

    President of Kingston Wood Artisans https://kwoodartca.wordpress.com/

    Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club
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  • #2

    Re: Had a problem with cyclone motor kicking off

    Marty,
    You should have minimal carry over in to the filters. You did not say how long you have run the unit or if you had much dust in the waste bin.

    1. You overfilled the waste bin to the point where the barrel filled and the fan push dust into the filters until it jammed, or
    2. You have a leak. The smallest leak in the waste bin connection will allow an airstream to flow from the waste bin up through the impeller. This will destroy the cyclone except for the heaviest particles.

    All of the connections at the cyclone have to be absolutely 100% air tight or the physical separation inside will not occur.

    Don

    Comment


    • #3

      Re: Had a problem with cyclone motor kicking off

      Re: Had a problem with cyclone motor kicking off

      Your experience seems counter intuitive. Normally a blocked filter results in less air flow so the motor does not have to work so hard thereby drawing less power and staying cooler. Was the motor very hot to touch when it shut down?
      Rob

      Comment


      • #4

        Re: Had a problem with cyclone motor kicking off

        Re: Had a problem with cyclone motor kicking off

        Rob,

        I've already demonstrated - and stated - that my experience in the realms of electronics is shallow. My understanding is that a blocked filter will diminish airflow and creating a partial vacuum, in turn allowing the impeller to spin more rapidly than the motor is designed for. In my situation, the motor itself didn't shut down, I believe it was the switch, as I was able to reset it there.

        The motor wasn't very hot when it shut down, which again tells me the motor wasn't overheating.

        Originally posted by iamtooler View Post
        Your experience seems counter intuitive. Normally a blocked filter results in less air flow so the motor does not have to work so hard thereby drawing less power and staying cooler. Was the motor very hot to touch when it shut down?
        Rob
        All the best,

        Marty

        President of Kingston Wood Artisans https://kwoodartca.wordpress.com/

        Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club

        Comment


        • #5

          Re: Had a problem with cyclone motor kicking off

          Re: Had a problem with cyclone motor kicking off

          Hey, Don,

          The cause was my lack of attention - which is the 1. you described. There is absolutely no leak.

          Thanks for your thoughts.


          Originally posted by Don Burch View Post
          Marty,
          You should have minimal carry over in to the filters. You did not say how long you have run the unit or if you had much dust in the waste bin.

          1. You overfilled the waste bin to the point where the barrel filled and the fan push dust into the filters until it jammed, or
          2. You have a leak. The smallest leak in the waste bin connection will allow an airstream to flow from the waste bin up through the impeller. This will destroy the cyclone except for the heaviest particles.

          All of the connections at the cyclone have to be absolutely 100% air tight or the physical separation inside will not occur.

          Don
          All the best,

          Marty

          President of Kingston Wood Artisans https://kwoodartca.wordpress.com/

          Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club

          Comment


          • #6

            Re: Had a problem with cyclone motor kicking off

            Re: Had a problem with cyclone motor kicking off

            Rob is correct, less air flow means less work for the motor, so the motor spins without any resistance and therefore the amp should be much less.
            The issue and the "solution" don't make sense to me....
            Remember, we are here to share, learn, and enjoy. Relax.

            Comment

            • Thread Continues Below...

            • #7

              Re: Had a problem with cyclone motor kicking off

              Re: Had a problem with cyclone motor kicking off

              Hey, everyone,

              I think the technical issues involved here are well beyond my knowledge base. I'm going to discuss this with the manufacturer's staff then will let everyone know what they're thinking.

              Stand by...
              All the best,

              Marty

              President of Kingston Wood Artisans https://kwoodartca.wordpress.com/

              Proud member of the Wadkin Blockhead Club

              Comment


              • #8

                Re: Had a problem with cyclone motor kicking off

                Re: Had a problem with cyclone motor kicking off

                Originally posted by MartyFromKingston View Post
                Hey, everyone,

                I think the technical issues involved here are well beyond my knowledge base. I'm going to discuss this with the manufacturer's staff then will let everyone know what they're thinking.

                Stand by...
                Good move. As others have said, current explanation does not compute. Centrifugal pumps and fans draw less power when their flow is restricted. The motor cannot spin faster than it is designed for. What would be driving it faster? The motor is what drives the whole system, not the other way around. Tail can't wag the dog.
                Cheers
                Randy

                Comment


                • #9

                  Re: Had a problem with cyclone motor kicking off

                  Re: Had a problem with cyclone motor kicking off

                  Maybe there is a pressure sensor that trips the motor when freewheeling too long.Marty now that you have it fixed you should close all your blast gates and run the cyclone again for 10 minutes see if you can repeat the problem.
                  For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
                  Sir Isaac Newton.

                  Comment


                  • #10

                    Re: Had a problem with cyclone motor kicking off

                    Re: Had a problem with cyclone motor kicking off

                    Hi Marty, I would turn off the power to the cyclone starter and then check that all the connections are tight. (Use a screwdriver to gently tighten the connections, a loose connection on the overload relay could cause the relay to trip.......Regards, Rod.

                    P.S. If you remind me before I come for a shop visit I can bring some test equipment and have a look at it for you...Rod.
                    Work is the curse of the riding class.

                    Comment


                    • #11

                      Re: Had a problem with cyclone motor kicking off

                      Re: Had a problem with cyclone motor kicking off

                      I've been watching this thread, but keeping my yap shut. My thoughts on this issue are the same as the others are conveying.

                      Years ago, I got into a debate on this topic, with a retired Delta rep (or something like that, Delta was involved somehow). The funny thing is that Marty was a witness to this event.

                      Anyways, subject to memory issues, this lad stated that some motors do not like being run without load.

                      As I couldn't, and still can't, debate that statement, I shut up. He wasn't able to explain why though. Without pointing fingers, I know that there are more than one contributor to this thread, that can address this with the abiity to stand behind their words.

                      I'm all ears. To this day, I still don't know whether I was wrong. It's ok if I was though.

                      Comment

                      • Thread Continues Below...

                      • #12

                        Re: Had a problem with cyclone motor kicking off

                        Re: Had a problem with cyclone motor kicking off

                        What did not surface, and was part of my item 1.,
                        " did the waste bin overflow continue right up to the point of filling the entire barrel and compromising the impeller motion"?
                        Everyone is assuming a filter full of dust = no air flow. This is no necessarily the case.
                        These machines do have the capacity to keep going until they cannot.
                        How much dust and shavings were removed in order to inspect the impeller.
                        I got silly recently and hooked my shop vac to my new planer. Just a little job. I very quickly had a waste bin packed with dust and shavings, except for the impression left by the filter element. The unit was still moving air, but at a much reduced rate.
                        Some thoughts to bring a bit of logic back into the discussion.

                        Don



                        Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

                        Comment


                        • #13

                          Re: Had a problem with cyclone motor kicking off

                          Re: Had a problem with cyclone motor kicking off

                          Originally posted by Kevin H View Post

                          Anyways, subject to memory issues, this lad stated that some motors do not like being run without load.
                          Series wound DC motors need load to stop from overspeeding to destruction. You would never find that on a fan. All DC's I have seen have induction motors on them.
                          Cheers
                          Randy

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