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  • Newbie with problems :)

    Hi all,

    I love this forum and all the available information. I am in the process of setting up a simple shop with dust collection. I have been reading up on dust collection, and tried to set up a system but unfortunately it is not working. I think I might have too strong of a vacuum.

    I have a Ridgid 5.0 hp shop vac which is connected to a unit which is made up of two 5 gallon Home Depot pails. At first, the filtration seemed to be working, but recently I noticed that half of my dust is going into the vac. The lid portion is not well made (simply the vac hose inserted in a hole in the middle and tilting due to its weight; the hose which brings the dust is on the top as well but at the side of the bucket and its opening is lower than the opening of the vac hose by about 5 inches and has an elbow on the end so that the incoming dust should move sideways).

    I am thinking that two things might be wrong: too strong of vac and too small of collection bucket. I was also thinking that if I picked up the Veritas cyclone lid I would have greater success.

    Another problem I have faced is trying to find the right size hoses and connectors. My table saw has a 4" exhaust. I had to find a reducer to bring that down to 3" and use a flexible dryer hose at the collection bucket. But my Ridgid Vac has a hose with a 2 1/8" ID. I had a terrible time trying to find connectors for all of the different sized hoses at Home Depot.

    I would appreciate any comments you might offer.

    Thanks so much

    Darren
  • Thread Continues Below...

  • #2

    Re: Newbie with problems :)

    Re: Newbie with problems

    Check out the Busy Bee Tool website, they have tons of reducing fittings that will meet your needs at a reasonable cost. If you want to stick with a real low cost system, I would also check out the cyclone lid at BB. They also have real suction hose in a variety of sizes sold by the foot so you don't have to use dryer vent hose (crap). Keep in mind that any air leaks will be detrimental to the end result you are seeking, namely good suction. Good connections are a must especially if you are using a shop vac. Keep an eye on Kijiji or Craigs list, sometimes you can pick up a decent one machine dust collector for $100. Good luck

    Comment


    • #3

      Re: Newbie with problems :)

      Re: Newbie with problems

      If you search a bit you will find several DIY cyclone lid ideas that may improve what you are doing. I would think a larger bin will help too.

      Your problem isn't too much power, in fact the amount of air you are moving is inadequate for truly effective dust collection. I might consider bypassing the cyclone idea and getting your vac right in there and sucking it up on the bag changes...

      Comment


      • #4

        Re: Newbie with problems :)

        Re: Newbie with problems

        From what you describe, the issue is almost certainly an air leak - likely a bad seal in the separator lid.

        I have a Dust Deputy - not sure if that's what you have but if not, probably very similar - and it is quite effective. The capacity of the 5 gal bucket is limited if you want to use it as a primary DC but it is simple to empty.

        The performance of a separator is not related to the size of the collection bin. All the important activity happens in the separator and the bin just holds what falls out. All bets are off if the bin gets full or if there is an air leak.

        If you are looking to move to something with a larger collection bin, check out the Thien baffle at http://www.jpthien.com/cy.htm. From what I've read, good performance and pretty simple to build to suit whatever size you want.
        Mark Kornell, Kornell Wood Design

        Comment


        • #5

          Re: Newbie with problems :)

          Re: Newbie with problems

          How about a picture of your system so we can see where you are at.

          Comment


          • #6

            Re: Newbie with problems :)

            Re: Newbie with problems

            In my opinion a 5 hp shop vac is not a real dust collector. I went down this route 15 years ago. I moved up to a 1 1/2 hp dust collector then up to a real 5 hp cyclone. You will need about three of those shop vac's plugged in to a 4 inch hose and then you will have some power to suck up the fines. The shop vac is more designed like a pump and not a dust collector. It will suck the fines into the filter and any DC will as well but a shop vac filter being 1/200 of the size it will be clogged in no time.
            For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
            Sir Isaac Newton.

            Comment

            • Thread Continues Below...

            • #7

              Re: Newbie with problems :)

              Re: Newbie with problems

              I'm with Matt. You do not have a dust collector. You have a vacuum cleaner. Two very different animals. By the time you have reduced your TS fitting and run the hose through any kind of separator, your vacuum cleaner is not moving enough air volume to do the job.
              Grant Wilkinson
              Ottawa ON

              Comment


              • #8

                Re: Newbie with problems :)

                Re: Newbie with problems

                Hello Darren, welcome to the forum.

                You have a few issues to take care of.

                1) the Vacuum you have selected isn't suitable as a dust extractor for 2 reasons, poor filtration and inadequate airflow.

                2) you'll need somewhere around 800CFM for adequate dust extraction on a tablesaw, that's about 500 to 600 for the cabinet and 200 for the above blade collection

                3) The 4 inch port on your saw is too small, minimum would be a 5 inch port.

                I suggest you do some reading, borrow a couple of books from the library, look at Bill Pentz's site and have some more discussions on the forum.

                A good HEPA vacuum can be used succesfully for dust extraction on hand held power tools such as sanders, drills etc, however none are suitable for stationary machinery dust extraction.

                Regards, Rod.
                Work is the curse of the riding class.

                Comment


                • #9

                  Re: Newbie with problems :)

                  Re: Newbie with problems

                  Hi everyone,

                  Thanks for chiming in and offering your advice. I will consider everyone's advice and do some more investigation and experimentation. My shop won't be impressive to most of you since it consists of a single car garage which is also used for storage...so space is very limited. Since I am in a townhome, my options are limited. At this point I think I will have to explore various options for my lowly vacuum (not DC).

                  Thanks again for all the speedy replies.

                  Darren

                  Comment


                  • #10

                    Re: Newbie with problems :)

                    Re: Newbie with problems

                    I also am in a townhome, however I'm using the basement.

                    Regards, Rod.
                    Work is the curse of the riding class.

                    Comment


                    • #11

                      Re: Newbie with problems :)

                      Re: Newbie with problems

                      A Dust Deputy or Clearvue CV06 Mini will out perform any other shop vac/trash can separator idea until you can get a proper unit.
                      Don

                      Comment

                      • Thread Continues Below...

                      • #12

                        Re: Newbie with problems :)

                        Re: Newbie with problems

                        Dust extraction in a single car garage is a tough call. For me a broom and shovel would work with a shop vac. You have to understand that the guys with the greatest collector systems you may ever see still get dust laying on surfaces. They also hate to admit it cause they've spent so much on their systems. Wood and saws produce dust. It's a fact of life. Sometimes you can overdo or overthink it.
                        "Do it Right!"

                        Comment


                        • #13

                          Re: Newbie with problems :)

                          Re: Newbie with problems

                          I agree with Rusty. Wood working is a dusty hobby no matter how good a system you have. There are those that would have you believe a little dust will kill you but I am not in that camp. If you are cutting a lot of pressure treated wood I would wear a dust mask and probably not a bad idea for any sawdust. Enjoy the hobby.

                          Brian
                          If your dreams don't scare you, you are not dreaming big enough

                          Comment


                          • #14

                            Re: Newbie with problems :)

                            Re: Newbie with problems

                            Originally posted by MasterDarren View Post
                            Hi all,

                            I love this forum and all the available information. I am in the process of setting up a simple shop with dust collection. I have been reading up on dust collection, and tried to set up a system but unfortunately it is not working. I think I might have too strong of a vacuum.

                            I have a Ridgid 5.0 hp shop vac which is connected to a unit which is made up of two 5 gallon Home Depot pails. At first, the filtration seemed to be working, but recently I noticed that half of my dust is going into the vac. The lid portion is not well made (simply the vac hose inserted in a hole in the middle and tilting due to its weight; the hose which brings the dust is on the top as well but at the side of the bucket and its opening is lower than the opening of the vac hose by about 5 inches and has an elbow on the end so that the incoming dust should move sideways).

                            I am thinking that two things might be wrong: too strong of vac and too small of collection bucket. I was also thinking that if I picked up the Veritas cyclone lid I would have greater success.

                            Another problem I have faced is trying to find the right size hoses and connectors. My table saw has a 4" exhaust. I had to find a reducer to bring that down to 3" and use a flexible dryer hose at the collection bucket. But my Ridgid Vac has a hose with a 2 1/8" ID. I had a terrible time trying to find connectors for all of the different sized hoses at Home Depot.

                            I would appreciate any comments you might offer.

                            Thanks so much

                            Darren
                            Your expectations would be valuable to provide proper advice. Are you looking for less sweeping? Are you looking for the best advice on protecting your lungs?

                            You will get different opinions here if you don't state what you are after. It could be a $200 fix or a $3000 dollar fix.

                            Comment


                            • #15

                              Re: Newbie with problems :)

                              Re: Newbie with problems

                              Originally posted by Rusty View Post
                              Dust extraction in a single car garage is a tough call. For me a broom and shovel would work with a shop vac. You have to understand that the guys with the greatest collector systems you may ever see still get dust laying on surfaces. They also hate to admit it cause they've spent so much on their systems. Wood and saws produce dust. It's a fact of life. Sometimes you can overdo or overthink it.
                              Dear Rusty,
                              It has been awhile since I felt the need to comment on some of your philosophical musings, but this one needs a rebuttal. I certainly could walk in a different direction, but hell April 1, who knows what the man is up to!

                              How narrow of me to think that when people request information, they may have a legitimate interest in improving some aspect of their woodworking experience. I have tried to provide good information to those who are interested.
                              And really the "Do It Right" approach is to do nothing, eat dust!!

                              Maybe some of us do over-think it, but at least we do think about it. Having that capacity is a blessing. I don't think it stands well for you to come to such a discussion, any discussion, suggesting, no matter how subtly, that thinking about any aspect of dust collection is an undesirable activity.

                              As far as investment goes, I like my toys and gadgets. I to have a broom, a single stage dust pump, a mini cyclone, a shop vac and a big ass 5HP cyclone. Sucks to be me - maybe super sucks
                              Of course there is dust laying about, just not as much.

                              There are proven technologies, so when the OP appears to be interested in and is thinking about this topic, some of us want to help him make best use of his time and resources.

                              You could have stopped at the broom and shovel statement, but when you cast an unqualified cloud of doubt over what is considered good practice, well it is just "bad form".

                              I value your input on many topics, but not this one.

                              Belated April 1.

                              Don

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