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  • #31

    Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

    Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

    Ya and will certainly admit no electrician, so I hire a licensed electrician to do the work in both the home and shop. Although the price is steep I think his knowledge and skill is invaluable, and he carries the responsibility.

    Inspections are usually done by a trained fire prevention officer because they are looking at the whole situation not just wiring issues, and you are correct, they can spot a poor job. Electrical engineers are usually only sent in following an insurance claim.
    Insurance providers have been doing annual prevention inspections in barns locally, looking for overheating in the main panel, circuits, connections and undersized wiring using a TIC (thermal imaging camera). If it's done right there is no concern.

    Regardless, I have seen shops go either way, direct to the panel or plug connections. Seems to depend most on the owners preference. Possibly shop layout flexibility? As well school shops will often install plugs on everything up to 10 hp. Most likely as a safety protocol to isolate the machine during tool change over or maintenance.

    I was curious if there was an insurance cost savings on either set up. The industry's method of risk/rate calculations seems to be a well guarded document.
    Mike


    Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.
    Henry Ford

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    • #32

      Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

      Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

      Dave, is this a commercial application or in your home shop?

      Regards, Rod.
      Work is the curse of the riding class.

      Comment


      • #33

        Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

        Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

        This is my home shop, in the basement. I am in the process of building a sawmill and have a 6.6 hp, 3ph 600volt motor 3500rpm that will sit in the back yard. Ive been reading about auto transformers and from what I gather it is 1 winding , with primary and secondary, and no isolation between the two, so the out is not grounded.

        Dave

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        • #34

          Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

          Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

          Back to the connection method for machines for a sec. Keep in mind that yet another rarely enforced code, (in my experience) is the use of cabtire (extension cord) for permanent or better said non mobile machines, is in fact a violation.

          Comment


          • #35

            Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

            Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

            Jarrett
            Curious to know, do you mean direct connections from machine to panel direct using cabtire, which I understand from my electrician is a violation, or is a plug-in connection to non mobile machines a violation as well.

            I think it would be important to define permanent or non mobile machines? Those not on wheels? Those sold without a plug requiring connection by an electrician?

            Even a commercial shop short of space will move machines around up to let's say 2,000 lbs, using a pallet jack. Having them on extensions makes this a lot easier but probably does not meet code.

            Thanks for your input.
            Mike


            Whether you think you can, or you think you can't--you're right.
            Henry Ford

            Comment


            • #36

              Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

              Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

              Originally posted by M.McKenna View Post
              Jarrett
              Curious to know, do you mean direct connections from machine to panel direct using cabtire, which I understand from my electrician is a violation, or is a plug-in connection to non mobile machines a violation as well.
              My understanding of it, is the use of cabtire is only allowed on mobile machinery. I don't have my code book handy so I can't quote. However I think the confusion over what's considered "mobile" or "permanent" is why you don't see this code enforced all that often, unless it's obvious the rule has been broken.

              Comment


              • #37

                Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

                Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

                Originally posted by staker View Post
                This is my home shop, in the basement. I am in the process of building a sawmill and have a 6.6 hp, 3ph 600volt motor 3500rpm that will sit in the back yard. Ive been reading about auto transformers and from what I gather it is 1 winding , with primary and secondary, and no isolation between the two, so the out is not grounded.

                Dave
                Voltages in dwellings cannot exceed 150 volts to ground, limiting you to a 208 volt 3 phase system, I expect that ESA will not approve it whether it's inside or outside, you should obtain clarification from them before commencing.

                With the autotransformer, since there is no isolation, the system ground reference is maintained..Rod.
                Last edited by Rod Sheridan; 02-10-2013, 02:20 PM.
                Work is the curse of the riding class.

                Comment


                • #38

                  Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

                  Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

                  I'm still not clear on the autotransformer need instead of using the OP's transformer. Isn't this the same thing in terms of voltages and maintaining a ground reference?

                  AutoXfmr.jpg

                  billh

                  Comment


                  • #39

                    Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

                    Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

                    Originally posted by Rod Sheridan View Post
                    Voltages in dwellings cannot exceed 150 volts to ground, limiting you to a 208 volt 3 phase system, I expect that ESA will not approve it whether it's inside or outside, you should obtain clarification from them before commencing.

                    With the autotransformer, since there is no isolation, the system ground reference is maintained..Rod.
                    wow
                    what code is that ? never heard of that one.

                    jack
                    English machines


                    jack
                    English machines

                    http://www.youtube.com/user/tool613

                    Comment


                    • #40

                      Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

                      Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

                      Bill. I specifically mentioned that the poster should convert to 3 phase at the 208 volt level and then step up to 600 volts using an autotransformer.

                      You can't make a single phase 600 volt system that's 600 volts to ground without special approval from ESA, which I doubt they would.

                      Your second diagram results in a 720 to volt to ground system, your first drawing results in a 480 volt to ground system.

                      Regards, Rod.

                      P.S I've added a drawing of the two types of transformers for the converter, top drawing is a delta to wye isolation transformer, lower is an auto-transformer type.

                      Visio-600V Converter.pdf
                      Last edited by Rod Sheridan; 02-10-2013, 05:15 PM. Reason: added PS
                      Work is the curse of the riding class.

                      Comment


                      • #41

                        Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

                        Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

                        Originally posted by jgarrett forsberg View Post
                        wow
                        what code is that ? never heard of that one.

                        jack
                        English machines
                        2-106 Circuit voltage-to-ground – Dwelling unitsBranch circuits in dwelling units shall not have a voltage exceeding 150 volts-to-ground except that, where the calculated load on the service conductors of an apartment or similar building exceeds 250 kV•A and where qualified electrical maintenance personnel are available, higher voltages not exceeding the voltage-to-ground of a nominal system voltage of 347/600Y shall be permitted to be used in the dwelling unit to supply the following fixed (not portable) equipment:
                        (a) space heating, provided that wall-mounted thermostats operate at a voltage not exceeding 300 volts-to-ground;
                        (b) water heating; and
                        (c) air conditioning.
                        Regards, Rod
                        Work is the curse of the riding class.

                        Comment


                        • #42

                          Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

                          Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

                          thanks Rod

                          Talks lots on lighting and the delling but does let 347/600 in out building or for HVLC. Is this part 1 CEC?

                          jack
                          English machines


                          jack
                          English machines

                          http://www.youtube.com/user/tool613

                          Comment


                          • #43

                            Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

                            Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

                            Ok thanks Rod. Does any body have a 15-20hp 240 3ph motor that they would like to sell cheap and ship on Ontario Northland?

                            Dave

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                            • #44

                              Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

                              Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

                              Does branch circuit apply to appliances plugged into a receptacle? Quite a few electronic items run high voltages, I know several of my fencers are over 10,000 volts, one is 15,000 on regular 120v plugs with CSA approval. My large shop lights are single phase 240v that step up to 575v, 1000watt bulb.
                              I had always understood that the code only applied to building wiring not what you plug into a receptacle.
                              Rob

                              Comment


                              • #45

                                Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

                                Re: 600volt rotary phase converter

                                Originally posted by iamtooler View Post
                                I had always understood that the code only applied to building wiring not what you plug into a receptacle.
                                Rob
                                We're talking voltage to ground Rob... If you device steps up voltage for a certain function it's fine. However it's still running on a recepticle that has a potential to ground of only 120v, (in the case of your fencers).

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