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Thread: Anyone making drawers should watch

  1. #1
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    Default Anyone making drawers should watch


  2. #2

    Default Not good!

    I'm sorry but anyone who thinks the rebate joinery he is using is stronger or as strong as a set of dovetails looses my attention immediately. I was also not impressed with the use of pieces of double sided tape to hold the spacer to the fence. As could be seen quite clearly this was causing the spacer to have bumps in it. Like I said not good.

  3. #3

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    That looks like a great way to go for that style of drawer. Thanks for posting..................Tom

  4. #4
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    Default

    I did use this exact method of joinery when building a kitchen for a friend a few years ago. Seems to be holding just fine, I haven't heard from him about the kitchen drawers (and I would have if there had been any problems, trust me)... I used the router table in my case, different tool, same result.

    I just hate it though when they make statements like "this is stronger than half-blind dovetails" without supporting their claim... I believe this joinery is strong enough, but stronger than dovetails? I think not...

    DC

  5. #5
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by Denis Chénard in Ottawa View Post
    I just hate it though when they make statements like "this is stronger than half-blind dovetails" without supporting their claim... I believe this joinery is strong enough, but stronger than dovetails? I think not...
    I don't know much about joinery as I am still learning. Looks like a claim can be made as they did a wood joint torture test and the simple joints like the box joint with 1/2' finger joint and lock miter joint rated #1. To say the test was perfect would be wrong but it is helpful knowledge when designing projects.

    http://www.brightcove.tv/title.jsp?title=1295326931
    Stephen of London Ontario

    ~ "Which is stronger, my resistance to change or my urge to grow?"

  6. #6
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    Dang! I just finished a drawer yesterday using rabbets and nail gun. I should've tried this. It would be much stronger, but for my application (small, light, seldom use) rabbet + nails will do. BUT, next time, I'll try this!

  7. #7
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
    Looks like a claim can be made as they did a wood joint torture test and the simple joints like the box joint with 1/2' finger joint and lock miter joint rated #1.
    For drawers the interesting test is the pull-apart one, as this is the primary stress between the front of the drawer and the sides when pulling out the drawer or slamming it shut (assuming stops behind the drawer front).

    It stands to reason that the box joint would be strongest, as it maximizes the amount of undisturbed wood fiber in each piece. In the case of dovetails, there is roughly the same amount of glue area, but the cutouts for the pins weakens the side somewhat.

    However, the dovetail will likely be strong enough, and will still work even once the glue starts to fail, while the box joint relies solely on the glue for it's strength.

    Similarly with the half-lap vs haunched M&T, the lap joint is stronger because it has more glue area, but if the glue fails then there is nothing left. Also, I'm surprised they didn't include a bridle joint, and I'd also like to see the results with a through-tenon.

  8. #8

    Default Going a little OT but

    the strength of a glued joint depends on the size of the glue area and the GRAIN ORIENTATION. A dovetail or finger (box) joint has a high proportion of side grain to side grain glue area. No other type of joint for drawer construction has this. In the tongue and rebate joint all the sufaces are end grain to side grain thus reducing the strength. If you want a quick strong joint then a simple rebate on the ends of the front and a few brads through the side is as quick and as strong as you need. The backs should be let into a dado that is about 1" in from the ends of the sides and also nailed.
    The art of joinery came about as a way to fasten pieces of wood together without glue or very expensive nails. The resulting joint also had to be structurally sound. So when deciding on what type of joint to use under certain conditions always remove the glue/fastener elements first from your choices and try to picture how the joint will perform without them. If the addition of glue or mechanical fasteners is necessary to maintain the integrity of the joint then you will also have to decide which is the best and how to apply them without negative impact to the joint.
    Also be aware that there is no substitute for a well fitted joint. A joint with lots of slop is not a joint, it's a glue holder

  9. #9
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    Default According to Wood Magazine

    And their machine tested drawer joints, their findings in order of pull apart strength were, #1 box joint, #2 lock miter, #3 lock rabbet, #4 through dovetail, #5 sliding dovetail, #6 rabbet with nails, #7 shouldered dado, #8 half blind dovetail. I think the idea of the video was to show a fairly fast, simple one setup method of making a reasonably strong drawer. For those of us who haven't mastered dovetails or that dang lock miter joint router bit, it looks like a pretty slick method. And as far as using glue to add strength to your drawer joints, cabinet makers of ages past should have been so lucky as to have the glues that modern technology has provided for us. Finally, the tests conducted by Wood magazine found the lock rabbet joint failed the pull apart test at 1,505 lbs and the lowly nailed rabbet joint failed at 1,329 lbs, each far more than the average person pulls out a typical drawer, except for that sticking junk drawer every house has. :lol:

  10. #10

    Default

    As much as I like old fashioned joinery in a nice piece of furniture I sure appreciate modern tools, materials, and adhesives in suitable projects. A couple of sheets of 1/2 inch plywood through the table saw, construction adhesive, and a narrow crown stapler and I've got a couple of dozen drawers that will last my lifetime in an hour or so.

  11. #11
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    Smile

    Originally Posted by Pete in Welland
    Also be aware that there is no substitute for a well fitted joint. A joint with lots of slop is not a joint, it's a glue holder
    Originally Posted by Chris in Saskatoon
    However, the dovetail will likely be strong enough, and will still work even once the glue starts to fail, while the box joint relies solely on the glue for it's strength.
    This is why I love this forum. I learn something everyday when woodworkers share their knowledge. Now I want to try using different joint work so that I may learn how to make them and also learn when to use them.

    Thank you Pete and Chris.
    Stephen of London Ontario

    ~ "Which is stronger, my resistance to change or my urge to grow?"

  12. #12

    Default

    Much discussion and many techniques for joining the sides to the front of a drawer. However the most common drawer failure in my experience is the slot in the sides for the drawer bottom. This slot cut parallel to the bottom of the side, cut about halfway through the side, with stress raising 90 degree corners, and in a weak grain orientation. To last as long as a well made dovetail this joint must be done well - don't take it lightly.

  13. #13
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bnadsaw View Post
    Much discussion and many techniques for joining the sides to the front of a drawer. However the most common drawer failure in my experience is the slot in the sides for the drawer bottom. This slot cut parallel to the bottom of the side, cut about halfway through the side, with stress raising 90 degree corners, and in a weak grain orientation. To last as long as a well made dovetail this joint must be done well - don't take it lightly.
    It is interesting that at the start of the video they show the drawer with basic metal drawer glides ... but then build a drawer whose bottom is inserted into a groove in the sides of the drawer. The drawer bottom has no contact/support from the drawer glides. If the bottom had been attached to the bottom of the sides then the bottom would be supported directly by the drawer glides (yes, I understand that this isn't fine cabinetry but it would provide better support)

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