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Thread: Therming. A year in the making.

  1. #1
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    J.P.

    Default Therming. A year in the making.

    Actually I guess it's been quite a bit over a year since I was asked to make this base. I kept putting it off because I knew it was a time consuming job. Just the setup alone took a couple of hours to ensure it was perfect. I did a couple more prototypes before turning the good one and found I had to make some changes to my jig. Then I finally mounted the Babinga. I have to admit, I was a bit nervous because I didn't have another Babinga blank and I didn't want to screw it up. Also, someone mentioned Babinga probably wasn't a good choice for this project.
    Anyway, I mounted it with chunks of maple for counter balance as before and turned the first side.
    turning side one.jpg

    I had to sharpen my tools a lot to ensure I didn't get any tear out. Once the first side was done, I was quite impressed with this wood. Hard, yes but it sure cut nice. The picture below is side one off the tool. I used a bowl gouge to rough the shape and cleaned it up with a honed scraper (no burr).
    first cut.jpg
    I started sanding with 240 for this side. I sanded each side to 400 before removing the blank from the jig. The second side didn't cut quite as nice and I started with 120 and again progressed to 400. Once I was done I wet sanded the whole thing with 400. The pictures below are the finished base still wet from wet sanding (no finish)
    top.jpg
    bottom 2.jpg
    bottom.jpg

    Continued below.
    J.P. Rap Mount Hope Ont.
    Carpe Ductum (Seize The Tape)


    "In this world, you must be oh so smart, or oh so pleasant." Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. Elwood P. Dowd

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Therming. A year in the making.

    front.jpg
    The hardest part of this is getting all three sides the same. When doing the last side, you have to measure often to ensure the three sides are all the same size.

    The only way to know when you have turned enough out is to stop the lathe and check the interface between the two profiles. When you have a straight line pointing toward the center, it's right.
    close up.jpg
    That means...take a cut, stop the lathe, check it, take a cut, stop the lathe, check it.........
    All together I think I have 10 hours just in this piece. That doesn't include all the prototypes I did. Maybe 15 in all.

    Anyhow, I'm very pleased with how it turned out and I'm glad it's finally finished. I'll bring it to the CNIB for anyone who's there to see it.
    All comments and critiques are welcome as always. And questions too of coarse.
    Thanx for looking.

    I almost forgot...The blank I started with was 6" X 6" X 2". The piece is only slightly smaller then that.
    Last edited by J.P. Rap; 09-13-2008 at 11:02 PM.
    J.P. Rap Mount Hope Ont.
    Carpe Ductum (Seize The Tape)


    "In this world, you must be oh so smart, or oh so pleasant." Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. Elwood P. Dowd

  3. #3
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    just what you thought :^')

    Default Re: Therming. A year in the making.

    Oohh that is nice JP, you pulled it off, that is sharp looking, maybe too good looking , I'd probably have only eyes for the wood and not see the sculpture
    You still have to sign the bottom JP, don't forget
    Thanks for posting the whole story and the final outcome, I enjoyed it all .

    Have fun and take care
    Leo Van Der Loo

  4. #4

    Default Re: Therming. A year in the making.

    J. P.

    That is amazing. Even after you showed how it was done I could not conceive ever figuring out how. The piece looks absolutely stunning and I'd love to have a closer look at it next Wednesday.

    Blaine
    "Congratulations. You've just figured out the most complicated way to hold a board 30 inches off the floor."
    Tage Frid

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    Default Re: Therming. A year in the making.

    Has it been a year since you started that.

    Yikes! I'm a year older!

    This was a base for something, if I remember correctly. Can you show us the base with the object it is intended for, or did I miss something in regards to this?
    Kevin

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Therming. A year in the making.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lost in the Woods View Post
    Has it been a year since you started that.

    Yikes! I'm a year older!

    This was a base for something, if I remember correctly. Can you show us the base with the object it is intended for, or did I miss something in regards to this?
    You didn't miss anything. I'll get some more pics tomorrow. In the mean time, This thread has some pics of the statue on the prototypes. That thread started 12/08/07 but I was aked to do it around June of 07 I think..

    and here is the "how to" thread.
    J.P. Rap Mount Hope Ont.
    Carpe Ductum (Seize The Tape)


    "In this world, you must be oh so smart, or oh so pleasant." Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. Elwood P. Dowd

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Therming. A year in the making.

    Thanx for the kind comments guys.
    Leo. I'll date it when it's good and dry but I don't think I'm going to sign it. It's for a stature that was handed down through the family and I don't feel right having my name on it. I know I made it and that's good enough for me.
    J.P. Rap Mount Hope Ont.
    Carpe Ductum (Seize The Tape)


    "In this world, you must be oh so smart, or oh so pleasant." Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. Elwood P. Dowd

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    Default Re: Therming. A year in the making.

    Quote Originally Posted by J.P. Rap View Post
    Thanx for the kind comments guys.
    Leo. I'll date it when it's good and dry but I don't think I'm going to sign it. It's for a stature that was handed down through the family and I don't feel right having my name on it. I know I made it and that's good enough for me.
    But J.P., think of the confusion you NOT signing it could cause some future archeoligist!!!
    Kevin

  9. #9
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    just what you thought :^')

    Default Re: Therming. A year in the making.

    Base done by JP is what it could read, and that would add to the total IMO

    Have fun and take care
    Leo Van Der Loo

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Therming. A year in the making.

    Quote Originally Posted by J.P. Rap View Post
    front.jpg
    The hardest part of this is getting all three sides the same. When doing the last side, you have to measure often to ensure the three sides are all the same size.
    I'm confused... is this made out of one single piece, turned in three setups? It looks that way from the grain, but...
    Whatever it is, it's pretty cool, and must have been a bugger to figure out.
    Mike in Orangeville, ON
    http://ifonlyyouwood.blogspot.com/

    SPCHT

  11. #11

    Default Re: Therming. A year in the making.

    Wow!! You did a fantastic job J.P.

    Clearly you paid the price for a great result. Any time you make that much effort and do so many experiments you deserve a perfect result.

    Congratulations, looking forward to seeing it.

    E.G.
    You stop learning the instant you start talking...
    And start again when you stop thinking how smart you are.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Therming. A year in the making.

    Well JP I was wondering when you were finally going to get your finger out and actually finish this off I mean it's not like you had anything else to do right?
    Bloody excellent Yes you must sign it with the wood species and date.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Therming. A year in the making.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Graham View Post
    I'm confused... is this made out of one single piece, turned in three setups? It looks that way from the grain, but...
    Whatever it is, it's pretty cool, and must have been a bugger to figure out.
    Thanx Mike.
    Yes. It's one piece. The process is called "Therming" The center of the blank is mounted outside the lathe center and after each side is turned, the blank is rotated 120 degrees. It's not all that complicated to figure out but I did find accuracy is paramount for good results.
    I like a good challenge now and then and as per usual, the first practice piece was very ruff and I found out then how much accuracy was need. After that, all the practice pieces were mostly to find a profile I liked.
    If you're interested I posted a "how too" earlier.


    I should point out. I didn't do 15 of these. The first bunch where round. I think I did 5 or 6 of this type before settling on this shape.

    Here's a picture of the first one I did. This one was done with no planning. I just mounted the blank and started turning.

    The side showing is the "good" side. The side you can't see is a real mess. When faced with something like this that I have never done before, I always try one first, fast and dirty, just to see what I'm in for. Once that's done it's easier to come up with a plan of attack.
    J.P. Rap Mount Hope Ont.
    Carpe Ductum (Seize The Tape)


    "In this world, you must be oh so smart, or oh so pleasant." Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. Elwood P. Dowd

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Therming. A year in the making.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edward G. Burlington View Post
    Wow!! You did a fantastic job J.P.
    Congratulations, looking forward to seeing it.
    E.G.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pete in Welland View Post
    Bloody excellent Yes you must sign it with the wood species and date.
    Thanx guys. You'll both get a chance to handle it and I look forward to getting your "hands on" impressions.

    Ya Pete. You know me. Lazy. I'd rather sit around watching the grass grow.
    J.P. Rap Mount Hope Ont.
    Carpe Ductum (Seize The Tape)


    "In this world, you must be oh so smart, or oh so pleasant." Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. Elwood P. Dowd

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Therming. A year in the making.

    Quote Originally Posted by J.P. Rap View Post
    Thanx Mike.
    Yes. It's one piece. The process is called "Therming" The center of the blank is mounted outside the lathe center and after each side is turned, the blank is rotated 120 degrees.
    One piece, okay. A similar thing is done to turn crankshafts and whatnot on a metal lathe. So you could, in theory, have as many sides on this thing as you wanted. You could have a 19-sided 'therm', though as you add sides you reduce the impact, or 'obviousness' that it's not a normal thing.
    Mike in Orangeville, ON
    http://ifonlyyouwood.blogspot.com/

    SPCHT

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Therming. A year in the making.

    Just to be sure I checked my book, "Woodturning Methods" by Mike Darlow.
    As it turns out I was mistaken. This would more accurately be described as eccentric turning.
    eccentric turning - turning a single piece multiple times, upon different axes each time.
    Therming...although you get the same or similar results, is more of a description of a particular method of turning. Several pieces are mounted in a carrier and one face of each is turned as one large blank. Then each piece is repositioned in the carrier to expose a new face. The number of faces turned on each piece doesn't matter.
    therming - mounting a carrier between centers, and then mounting the small workpiece(s) to the carrier, so that the axis of the headstock/tail-stock does not pass through any of the workpieces, and each workpiece gets cut only on one face. As noted in Wood-turning Methods by Mike Darlow, the etymology of the term "therming" comes via a corruption of the name of the Greek god Hermes, who was often represented as a statue set atop a plinth with a construction characteristic of thermed work.
    According to the book there is very little written information about therming and most of it is in German text. If you Google it, The only reference you will find as it relates to turning is that of Mike Darlow.
    I will have to bring this up at the next GHWG meeting as there has been quite a bit of discussion on the subject.

    What Mike Darlow describes as "Cantilevered Eccentric Turning" closely resembles a crank shaft.

    (Quotes taken from Wiki)
    J.P. Rap Mount Hope Ont.
    Carpe Ductum (Seize The Tape)


    "In this world, you must be oh so smart, or oh so pleasant." Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. Elwood P. Dowd

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    Default Re: Therming. A year in the making.

    J.P. that turned out pretty nice. You certainly did a nice job there!
    I liked the way you got a smooth finish with the scraper. I have heard many turners look down at this tool but too like it as it does the work in some situations when I cannot use the gouge. The only fear of it I have are those nasty catches that happen once in a while.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Therming. A year in the making.

    Thank you.


    There are some turners that look down on scrapers and they are all a bunch of fools.
    There's nothing wrong with scrapers. With few exceptions, hollowing tools are scrapers. Many turners use gouges as scrapers when needed and I know of a few that even use a skew as a scraper (not me). There are situations were a scraper will give you the best results.
    I hone my scrapers with a diamond file and it cuts the wood rather then tear it. I get shavings not dust like sanding. I actually took a measurement of the shavings when I was turning this piece and got some nice shavings reading .005".

    I suspect this dislike of scrapers started in much the same way as many other myths start in woodturning. Someone of "authority" says they don't like scrapers and someone listening thinks "If he said it, it must be true". That person then passes along his "Turning knowledge" to others. Before you know it the sheep are all following along instead of thinking for themselves and this is the result you get. I have heard this rumor a number of times but if I ask "why" I rarely get a good answer.
    I certainly don't promote using a scraper for everything. Many novices have a hard time with gouges and skews so they use scrapers because they're easier. That is a case where I would say, stop using a scraper and learn how to use your tools properly. This might be interpreted to mean "scrapers are bad" and perhaps that's were it all started. It just means "learn to use the tools properly and use a scraper where it will do the best job".
    Climbing down now.
    J.P. Rap Mount Hope Ont.
    Carpe Ductum (Seize The Tape)


    "In this world, you must be oh so smart, or oh so pleasant." Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. Elwood P. Dowd

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Therming. A year in the making.

    Oh ya.
    I was asked for a picture with the carving on it.
    Sorry for the crappy picture but I forgot to take one during day light.
    complete.jpg
    J.P. Rap Mount Hope Ont.
    Carpe Ductum (Seize The Tape)


    "In this world, you must be oh so smart, or oh so pleasant." Well, for years I was smart. I recommend pleasant. Elwood P. Dowd

  20. #20

    Default Re: Therming. A year in the making.

    Quote Originally Posted by J.P. Rap View Post
    Thank you.


    There are some turners that look down on scrapers and they are all a bunch of fools.
    There's nothing wrong with scrapers. With few exceptions, hollowing tools are scrapers. Many turners use gouges as scrapers when needed and I know of a few that even use a skew as a scraper (not me). There are situations were a scraper will give you the best results.
    I hone my scrapers with a diamond file and it cuts the wood rather then tear it. I get shavings not dust like sanding. I actually took a measurement of the shavings when I was turning this piece and got some nice shavings reading .005".

    I suspect this dislike of scrapers started in much the same way as many other myths start in woodturning. Someone of "authority" says they don't like scrapers and someone listening thinks "If he said it, it must be true". That person then passes along his "Turning knowledge" to others. Before you know it the sheep are all following along instead of thinking for themselves and this is the result you get. I have heard this rumor a number of times but if I ask "why" I rarely get a good answer.
    I certainly don't promote using a scraper for everything. Many novices have a hard time with gouges and skews so they use scrapers because they're easier. That is a case where I would say, stop using a scraper and learn how to use your tools properly. This might be interpreted to mean "scrapers are bad" and perhaps that's were it all started. It just means "learn to use the tools properly and use a scraper where it will do the best job".
    I couldn't let this pass without a few comments.
    If you are honing the edge then you are in fact using a cutting edge with a very steep grind. A scraper has a "wire" either turned over with a burnisher like a card scraper or the wire left from the grinding. I have dressed the tops of my scrapers on a very fine grit oil stone as this the flattens the top suface and you get a more consistent "wire" or burr.
    I totally agree with you on the subject of the "Guru" mentality or "if xyz said it then it must be true"
    I guess being a "fool" is why no one listens to a word I say
    I look down on scrapers because they are the last resort. I prefer to use a "60 grit" gouge or a freshly sharpened skew or gouge any day.
    I have tried and tried to re-educate scraper only users to the benefits of using a sharp gouge or skew. But that's the way they were taught in wood shop so as not to have to worry so much about catches. I find I get more catches with scrapers than anything else so I must be the village idiot
    There are also "wood shop students" who think nothing of grabbing a handful of steel wool and thrusting it into a rapidly spinning rough chunk of wood in an attempt to smooth it after the scraper has butchered the surface, but that's another rant
    The biggest problem I have with scrapers is the need for so many different shapes. Sometimes you can get by doing a shear scrape that allows you to fit the scraper to the curve a bit better but they are nowhere near as versatile as a gouge.
    So now I will get off the

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