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Thread: Glue in Plywood, PB, etc is it toxic

  1. #1
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    Default Glue in Plywood, PB, etc is it toxic

    My daughter wants simple rectangular box. I want to make it out of plywood or veneer covered plywood.
    She is claiming the glues within the wood will be toxic to her daughter?

    HELP
    CHEERS
    Don B

  2. Thread Continues Below...

  3. #2
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    Default Re: Glue in Plywood, PB, etc is it toxic

    Don,
    Haven't you learn't yet?
    What daughters and the wife want....they get!
    What are you arguing for?!!!
    Life ceases to simple and pleasant and predictable if you do not swiftly agree with either the wife or the daughter.....particularly on matters as trivial as plywood versus actual wood.

    Personally ..... I always like to have the last word in any argument with my wife and it ends like this...."Yes dear."

    As to the question to hand, she is both right and wrong...is she intending to feed it to the child or merely put the child inside and close the lid or what???
    Nevermind.
    Who cares...why go there...you are not going to win you know.... just use real natural wood, its nicer anyhow, more user friendly, gets better with age, works nicer, finishes better, is the real thing not the ersatz cheap and nasty substitute, is more appreciated, safer and altogether more environmentally friendly, non hazardous, non toxic, puts smiles on faces all round, is much more fun to use and way nicer to possess........should I continue or are we all in agreement now.

    Good!
    I thought so.

    I wouldn't use plywood for my dog!
    Let alone my daughter and her wee lambkin from hell.

    Post a pic of the nice wood box when you are done!

    Good luck
    Julian

  4. #3

    Default Re: Glue in Plywood, PB, etc is it toxic

    I think Julian should set up his own forum and we all ask questions. I really enjoy your approach to woodworking and life.
    In terms of the orginal question your daughter had some issues with paint(finishes) a little while ago that you posted. Use real wood and finish with an oil. Everyone is happy. I would also note if its anything like my house get measurements(down to 1/4) so its made right. I made a stool for my daughter so she could reach the sink. It got used twice and put in the basement because it was "too big". We all learn the hard way.

  5. #4
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    Default Re: Glue in Plywood, PB, etc is it toxic

    Is you granddaughter highly allergic and sensitive to all adhesive formulas, or just the few (formaldehide glues) If it is a ssnsitiveity to some... Try either the Prefinished Plys or Baltic Birch Ply and pre finish all surfaces (ends and joints) before assembly, Of course Epoxy or metal fasteners will be required.

    I would find out if it is a recognized allergy or if it is the concerns of a protective mother. (when my first grand daughter was born, both his mom & dad were worried over all traces of "something" touching her... grass, dirt, Binkie hits the dirt, is replaced by a new one... After the second sweet thing, a new set of worry rules were enacted. Five second rule for the Binkie is now in place.) Things change over time...

    If it is an allergy, find out What is involved and determine what finishes (or glues) are exceptable. Check with the manufacturers of the materials for product information.


    I bought some 3/4" Ply from local Lowes and it stank so bad when I sawed and routed that I had to wear a mask. All depends on the product.
    Bill "Hickory" Simpson

  6. #5

    Default Re: Glue in Plywood, PB, etc is it toxic

    I'm with Julian.

    But whatever you do I'm guessing using glue would not be a good thing. Play it safe and use pocket screws.

  7. #6
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    Default Re: Glue in Plywood, PB, etc is it toxic

    Or fish glue.
    Or hide glue.

    Julian

  8. Thread Continues Below...

  9. #7
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    Default Re: Glue in Plywood, PB, etc is it toxic

    She may be thinking that some manufacturers use formaldehyde in their plywood. If that is the case, you could see if there is a supplier near you with some of the "greener" choice sheet goods. I would go with the others though, just make it out of hard wood. If she is anything like my wife, it won't matter if you did find a "greener" safe ply anyways (it's a loosing battle because she won't believe you) and your creation will end up collecting dust somewhere out-of-site .

  10. #8
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    Default Re: Glue in Plywood, PB, etc is it toxic

    Here's a place that if I were to spend too much time reading, I'd move to a cave and only eat things I grew or hunted myself.

    http://pubs.acs.org/page/about-us.html

    Our environment/society is inescapably built of chemicals and they exhaust fumes/elements in our surroundings constantly for years and years.

    Fortunately, humans are pretty resilient, and our bodies repair themselves all the time. I'm more concerned with the odd tail-gator on the highway behind me doing me in, than being poisoned by my surroundings.

    Nevertheless Don, follow the advice wisely stated before, do what women want or they will take over the planet, and we don't want that now do we?
    Kevin

  11. #9
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    Default Plywood, osb, mdf Glue

    I am reading much now about the urea formaldahyde glue used in the ply, osb, mdf products.
    It seems California set standards that arte low.
    A west coast firm is now using soy oil now in its place.
    Commonwealth Plywood in Ont/Que are using UF Free glue that is to a spec of .03.
    What about the stuff from HD, Rona, etc?

    MSDS data sheet from HD shows UR but I cannot understand.
    I can email it to anyone interested or who can interpete. PM me.
    CHEERS
    Don B

  12. #10
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    Unhappy Re: Glue in Plywood, PB, etc is it toxic

    We are all learning.
    A personal lecture is not what I need.
    I am trying to find the facts about glue and what we all shopuld be building with!
    CHEERS
    Don B

  13. #11
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    Default Re: Glue in Plywood, PB, etc is it toxic

    I'm not sure if you're referring to my post Don, but I didn't mean it as a personal lecture. Sorry if it came across that way.
    Kevin

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  15. #12
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    Default Re: Glue in Plywood, PB, etc is it toxic

    Right then, we stand corrected, my apologies.

    The short answer is yes, the glue in plywood can be considered toxic and yes it does off-gas, albeit at low levels and yes your daughter is right.

    Anyone with chemical sensitivities will confirm this (and, though I am not chemically sensitive myself I have worked in that area and have considerable awareness of what low level or long term chemical exposures can do ...and what to do about it, for that matter.)
    Long term low level zenobiotic bio-accumulation can be very nasty indeed and the consequences, though they vary wildly from person to person can be very unpleasent, ranging from mere fatique and/or memory problems to headaches, immune system suppression, full on chemical sensitivity etc etc.

    If an individual is concerned or leery about "fumes" from plywood, then that is completely justified and realistic, whether it be from long term health considerations, general preventive health interests and the desire to minimise all potential exposure or the proximity of an individual who is already chemcally sensitised or compromised to some degree.

    In short, if there is any concern at all, then it is valid (and there is plenty of documentation on the topic) ..and the answer is simply not to use plywood or composite materials at all.
    Go completely natural ...and be careful of what finish you chose also.

    best regards
    Julian

  16. #13
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    Default Re: Glue in Plywood, PB, etc is it toxic

    Quote Originally Posted by Lost in the Woods View Post
    " I'd move to a cave and only eat things I grew or hunted myself.

    "
    But, you can't be certain who's garden the critter you hunted has be into... Never know what toxins lurk in the fat & meat of some strange game. Best stay in the cave and eat mushrooms. Butmake sure there aren't any bats as they may drop Guano from who knows where...
    Bill "Hickory" Simpson

  17. #14
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    Default Re: Glue in Plywood, PB, etc is it toxic

    I also like Julian's answer, basicly what it comes down to is "You can't win so shut up and do it!"
    Bill "Hickory" Simpson

  18. #15
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    Default Re: Glue in Plywood, PB, etc is it toxic

    I am reading much now about the urea formaldahyde glue used in the ply, osb, mdf products.
    It seems California set standards that are low.
    A west coast firm is now using soy oil now in its place.
    Commonwealth Plywood in Ont/Que are using UF Free glue that is to a spec of .03.
    What about the stuff from HD, Rona, etc?

    MSDS data sheet from HD shows UR but I cannot understand.
    I can email it to anyone interested or who can interpete. PM me.
    CHEERS
    Don B

  19. #16
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    Default Re: Glue in Plywood, PB, NEW STDS AS OF JAN 1

    The Federal standards for plywood and all composite material were substantially increased as of Jan 1st. Local wholesale supplier answered my questions that mills started producing to the new stds last October to meet the date, and they have a month or two to sell off existing stock. Although I have been reading stds published by US Agencies, they do now or will promptly apply north of the border so save your question on that.

    I laid the printed information on a rep. at HD and received blank stares - she did however sincerely forward it at my request to their corp. management and buyers asking for an explanation of their position in early December and it has never been seen since.

    If anyone would like to see some plywood industry consumer fliers written in English in anticipation last Fall - or as close as they can get to it, and recognizing a slight bias by the author/source - I will find them and send them to you, for whatever you might be able to decipher from it.

  20. Thread Continues Below...

  21. #17

    Default Re: Glue in Plywood, PB, etc is it toxic

    Quote Originally Posted by HorseshoeHobby View Post
    What about the stuff from HD, Rona, etc?
    I think you're missing everyone's point. Everyone is suggesting that you forget the plywood. Whether its dangerous or very dangerous, it doesn't matter. Just use solid wood because its much safer. There's no debate with solid wood. No glue. No toxin.

    P.S. I really like the comment about using pocket screws .... this eliminates all toxins. (Unless the screws come lose, and then, well, we'll have a different story ...)

    Rob

  22. #18
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    Default Re: Glue in Plywood, PB, etc is it toxic

    Quote Originally Posted by Woodbridge Woody View Post
    I think you're missing everyone's point. Everyone is suggesting that you forget the plywood. Whether its dangerous or very dangerous, it doesn't matter. Just use solid wood because its much safer. There's no debate with solid wood. No glue. No toxin.

    P.S. I really like the comment about using pocket screws .... this eliminates all toxins. (Unless the screws come lose, and then, well, we'll have a different story ...)

    Rob
    The point is that we all use VC particle board and VC ply for our projects. I am only trying to expand all our know how in regards to what is environmentally friendly now.
    We should understand what makes a product and how changes are made.
    California has banned emissions from formaldehyde. The US per Steve above has placed new standards effective Jan 1.
    Where are we in Canada?
    Should we as woodworkers not become more vocal on these issues?
    It is our own benefit to do so.

    Commonwealth Plywood now has F Free sheet goods available.
    My 2 cents.
    CHEERS
    Don B

  23. #19
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    Default Re: Glue in Plywood, PB, etc is it toxic

    I am actually interested in this discussion, although I haven't got anything to contribute. It is one of those things I have meant to research, but haven't had the time.

    So far the info is informative, and I encourage anyone with more info to post

    I need to get around to learning more about finishes as well some day.


    Thanks

    Ian

  24. #20
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    Default Re: Glue in Plywood, PB, ARTICLE EXPLAINING

    Here is an article hastily retrieved on the subject, http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/s...9.43b15ef.html in the interest of expediency.

    While this article happens to speak of the California statute, the new Air Regs will have an effect nationally - I had previously seen some national articles that I don't have at my fingertips.

    While this article is presented here as an informative piece more than regulatory or Code, it speaks to the original question asked in this thread.

    I hope you find it informative. I have yet to get a reply from Home Depot. for whatever that might be worth.

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