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Thread: What finish to use over dyed flooring pieces

  1. #1

    Default What finish to use over dyed flooring pieces

    Hi guys. I'm new to finishing and trying to learn why a person would choose oil vs. water etc.
    I'm making some floor transition pieces that divide my ceramic kitchen with my laminate flooring in the hall. I've used analine dye on the red oak to match the dark brown of the laminate and now I need to finish it.

    I tried wiping on some minwax polycrylic stuff I had in the basement but it just wiped off the dye. I re-dyed but I assume that stuff was water based and it reactivated the dye. I have some shellac to try and seal over the dye but it also seemed to wipe off a bit of dye. I'd rather just spray on a sealer so I don't risk rubbing off any dye.

    Do you guys know what I should try? Can you explain your suggestions so I might learn a bit?

    After the sealer what should I use as a final finish? Water based, oil based etc. I did some searching and people keep saying 'oil is a terrible choice for any floor finish'. Why is that? When you wash the floor with pinesol or other cleaners would this be an issue?

    Should I be careful what I use as a sealer and with my finish so they're compatible? Oil based spray to seal so it doesn't reactive the dye, then non-oil based finish becasue for some reason people say it's terrible.

    I just checked minmax website: "Minwax® Polycrylic® is not recommended for use on floors." << It doesn't say why !
    Last edited by Bob R., Ottawa; 06-21-2009 at 12:43 PM.
    Why do people keep calling me Rob?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: What finish to use over dyed flooring pieces

    I used aniline dye on oak (desk), then sprayed coats of Varathane diamond polyurethane, seems to be holding up well.

  3. #3

    Default Re: What finish to use over dyed flooring pieces

    Is that water based or oil?
    Why do people keep calling me Rob?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: What finish to use over dyed flooring pieces

    oil based, does not effect the dye that way.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: What finish to use over dyed flooring pieces

    I've used the poly-crilic stuff once, with terrible results. Since then, I don't ever recommend it.
    I've also only ever used dye once, and had no problem wiping on an oil finish after it was dry. But spraying might be better, even if it's just a rattle can. You can get the Varathane poly in the spray cans, and that would be a godd finish for floor use. Just do plenty of coats to get the protection.

    Ryan
    Formerly known as "Ryan in Edmonton "

    GALLERY OF PROJECTS: http://lumberjocks.com/galleries/Boomr99#

  6. #6

    Default Re: What finish to use over dyed flooring pieces

    A spray can of oil or water based poly? If I try and spray water based it might make the dye run off.

    Do you guys know why they say oil based finish is terrible for floors?

    I notice also Home Depot sells spray cans of shellac and varnish. I think shellac is alcohol based isn't it? What is compatible over each of those, water or oil based?
    Why do people keep calling me Rob?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: What finish to use over dyed flooring pieces

    Again, I'm no expert here, but I'd use the spray oil based poly. Your right about the chance of any water based finish causing the dye to run.

    Penetrating oil finishes are a bad choice for floors because they penetrate and don't offer the surface protection you want. But oil based Polyurethane is not a penetrating finish, it builds a film. Poly was originally designed for floors, so it will withstand wear and use.

    Shellac is alcohol based, and the stuff in the spray can is likely NOT wax-free, which means that NO finish is compatible over top of it. Nothing will properly adhere over waxy shellac, from what I understand. To get any finish to adhere over shellac, it has to be de-waxed shellac.

    As for the varnish, well, that depends what it is. Varnish is kind of a generic term that could apply to several different kinds of finish, but is usually an oil based finish. I'm not sure if it'll have the wear resistance you'd be looking for.

    Go with the diamond poly, it'll adhere, save the dye, and hold up well.

    Ryan
    Last edited by RSWoodworks; 06-22-2009 at 02:00 PM.
    Formerly known as "Ryan in Edmonton "

    GALLERY OF PROJECTS: http://lumberjocks.com/galleries/Boomr99#

  8. #8
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    Default Re: What finish to use over dyed flooring pieces

    Bob!

    It's a floor, so use a real floor finish, not some "off the shelf" poly which won't stand up to the wear and tear.
    There are excellent finishes readily available from Fabulon (oil based) and Bona Kemi (waterbased) with easy to follow instructions.
    I wouldn't put shellac on a floor unless it was in a heritage type house and the client signed every waiver I have. You don't want to put shellac under a urethane floor finish, which is either self sealing or has special sealers made to compliment it. It doesn't matter if it's dewaxed or not, you'll get finish failure sooner than later as hard and soft finishes don't go well together.

    Hope this helps.......................Paul

  9. #9

    Default Re: What finish to use over dyed flooring pieces

    Thanks for the tips. My main problem is the dye, I need to seal it in without rubbing it off so I'd rather get some sort of spray sealer. I think I'll try that Diamond Polyurathane spray can to at least seal it. Then maybe a floor finish or another coat of the spray poly. I'd imagine that real floor finish will only be sold in large quantities, I'm only doing 3 sticks !
    Why do people keep calling me Rob?

  10. #10
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    Default Re: What finish to use over dyed flooring pieces

    Since its kinda on topic I was able to hvlp (non-turbine) the Varathane Poly without thinning.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: What finish to use over dyed flooring pieces

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob R., Ottawa View Post
    I'd imagine that real floor finish will only be sold in large quantities, I'm only doing 3 sticks !
    Good point!
    I know they both come in gallon cans, maybe check their websites/distributors to see if they have smaller or will give you a sample can (usually a quart). My finish supplier has them, but that's a bit far for you if you know a local floor finisher, you could try and get a small amount.

    Regards..................Paul

  12. #12
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    Default Re: What finish to use over dyed flooring pieces

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob R., Ottawa View Post
    I just checked minmax website: "Minwax® Polycrylic® is not recommended for use on floors." << It doesn't say why !
    Are they going to tell you that it is NO GOOD?

    IMHO I would choose An Oil Based Poly... Perhaps Helmsman Marine Poly (Minwax Product) Perhaps the reason they say not recommended for floors is because I won't last. IMHO no WB Poly will endure any wear and erosion that walking on can offer.
    Bill "Hickory" Simpson

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