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Thread: Grizzly waives Brokerage Fees

  1. #21
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    A.B. Normal

    Default Re: Grizzly waives Brokerage Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Madore View Post
    I would not buy a DC with a cast aluminum impeller, no way, no how.

    Cheers!

    Gary

    OK, I'll bite, why not?

    My collector has a cast aluminum impeller, which seems to be common for the Oneida cyclones.

    I guess it could shed a blade if it was defective, however it would never leave the inside of the blower housing, the steel is very thick.

    It's a 2 stage device, so aside from extremely fine dust, there wouldn't be any possibility of foreign objects impacting the impeller.

    Regards, Rod.

  2. #22

    Default Re: Grizzly waives Brokerage Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by Rod Sheridan View Post
    OK, I'll bite, why not?
    Rod,

    Ignorance, predjudice and personal preference, I guess

    I fly fish and have learned to not trust cast aluminum reels due to the possibility of defects causing failure of the reel.

    The first thing I did when I bought my boat was to ditch the cast aluminum prop and replace it with a machined steel one.

    So, I am concerned with catastrophic failure, but I hadn't considered that the housing may be sturdy enough to contain the disintegrating impeller's fragments... Frags make me nervous ;)

    I'd have to have faith in a company's quality control before I'd be found anywhere near a cast part spinning at high RPM, and my thoughts on overseas quality control, regardless of the brand, are well known.

    So, yeah, it's just a feeling based on no evidence, but it would take some convincing to get me to stand close to one.

    Maybe I'm just a candya$$

    Cheers!

    Gary

  3. #23

    Default Re: Grizzly waives Brokerage Fees

    How can you tell if your impeller is cast or not, the lack of weld points?
    Why do people keep calling me Rob?

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Grizzly waives Brokerage Fees

    You will be hard pressed to find an industrial supply of Dust collectors that have a steel impeller It is a fire regulation and some of these industry ones are in the 25 hp and up range. I had phoned Murphy Dust Systems in Cambridge a few months ago seeking the specific Act and all he knew was that it was a Fire Regulation and all commercial are aluminum. My Toolex 2 hp unit has an Aluminum impellar and 4 years ago I was sanding on a workbench and had the 4 in DC hose taped to the table. All of a sudden there was a terrible banging noise coming from the DC. I rushed over and turned it off and back on again and the noise was gone so that is as far as I checked.I was in a hurray. I went back to sanding and reached for my 12 in. wooden handle brush and suddenly discovered what the banging was. Looked into the bag and my horse hair brush was in a million pieces. It had no effect on the impellar and it still runs as good today as it ever has.
    There is certainly a lot of good info on Bill Pentz`s site but I don`t believe it to be gospel. I believe people such as Oneida, Murphy, Kraemer, Torit and many others are also very knowledgeable.

    Brian

    Brian
    " It is nice to be important but more important to be nice"

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Grizzly waives Brokerage Fees

    Yes you are correct ...I did mean that the aluminum impeller will not spark and therefor won't contribute to a fire in your dust collector. The term "explosion proof" may just be a "sales termanology" i have grown up with but i think it is actually used in the technical aspects of the dust collection world...I may be wrong but the term does get the point accross.

    The other advantage is the aluminum impeller is machined to be balanced properly and tends to be more reliable than the welded steel impeller for running smoothly. When it runs smoother it is also easier on the motor and tends to run a little quieter.

    General uses aluminum in their 2HP and 3HP unit...they also have it in a 1HP but no one really sells it anymore...the 1.5HP is welded steel...it is considered by General to be more of a price point issue on the 1 and 1.5hp units.

    Cole

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Grizzly waives Brokerage Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob R., Ottawa View Post
    How can you tell if your impeller is cast or not, the lack of weld points?
    Bob,
    A cast impeller will have a dull consistent surface except where nibs and other rough points are machined off. And there will be nice shiny holes around the circumference where material is removed for balancing. And as you note a lack of weld points where the vanes are attached. A machined impeller would not have any weld points either, but I doubt that you or I will ever own a machine that has one - $$$$$$

    Casting is the cheapest manufacturing process and has the greatest chance of inconsistent metallurgy.

    Don

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Grizzly waives Brokerage Fees

    I believe the explosion they speak of is the explosion of the sawdust from a spark not the impeller flying apart.

  8. #28

    Default Re: Grizzly waives Brokerage Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Burch View Post
    Casting is the cheapest manufacturing process and has the greatest chance of inconsistent metallurgy.
    Indeed

    Cheers!

    Gary

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Grizzly waives Brokerage Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
    I believe the explosion they speak of is the explosion of the sawdust from a spark not the impeller flying apart.
    If "They" is the distributor, then yes. However the manufacturer does not advertise as such, rather:

    "Precision spin-balanced aluminum impeller for smooth operation,minimal noise and to reduce the risk of sparking."

    Reduced risk of sparking is a long way from explosion proof, and I would think that static discharge sparking would easily occur in the presence of an aluminum impeller.

    Don
    Last edited by Don Burch; 05-05-2010 at 11:13 AM. Reason: correcting text.

  10. #30
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    Default Re: Grizzly waives Brokerage Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Burch View Post
    If "They" is the manufacturer, then yes. However the manufacturer does not advertise as such, rather:

    "Precision spin-balanced aluminum impeller for smooth operation,minimal noise and to reduce the risk of sparking."

    Reduced risk of sparking is a long way from explosion proof, and I would think that static discharge sparking would easily occur in the presence of an aluminum impeller.

    Don
    Don I'm not suggesting "they" is the manufacturer but rather the person or persons who brought the word explosion to the conversation. Your posting "Precision spin-balanced aluminum impeller for smooth operation,minimal noise and to reduce the risk of sparking." explains the manufacturer's position correctly. Nowhere do they mention explosion and I'm just pointing out what I think was being imparted by the use of the word. Sawdust in a system is supposedly susceptible to exploding into flame [I've never seen it.]

  11. #31
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    Default Re: Grizzly waives Brokerage Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
    Don I'm not suggesting "they" is the manufacturer but rather the person or persons who brought the word explosion to the conversation. Your posting "Precision spin-balanced aluminum impeller for smooth operation,minimal noise and to reduce the risk of sparking." explains the manufacturer's position correctly. Nowhere do they mention explosion and I'm just pointing out what I think was being imparted by the use of the word. Sawdust in a system is supposedly susceptible to exploding into flame [I've never seen it.]
    Sorry. Head and fingers not always unified.

    Don

  12. #32

    Default Re: Grizzly waives Brokerage Fees

    I think this thread deviated from Grizzly waiving their brokerage fees (which I'm glad).



    ...just sayin'
    Why do people keep calling me Rob?

  13. #33
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    Default Re: Grizzly waives Brokerage Fees

    Can't find a decent Thread Cop any more.

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Grizzly waives Brokerage Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by kcjones View Post

    Please let us know how it goes. I may get the 2hp canister DC model
    G0548Z. It is back ordered a couple weeks. The 1 1/5 HP GI 10-105CFM1 would be an additional $100 at least. Both canisters are spun bond polyester.
    What's with the non CSA rating on the Grizz motor, is that a problem?
    Ken

    Imagination is more important than knowledge. A Einstein

  15. #35

    Default Re: Grizzly waives Brokerage Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by DalbergiaGuy View Post
    What's with the non CSA rating on the Grizz motor, is that a problem?
    Technically they shouldn't be selling in Canada without a CSA ( if it has a ULc label, your good to go) label but when push comes to shove they would just pull out of the market. They can't be bothered.

    If it were used in a commercial/industrial setting it would, at minimum, need a hydro inspection to be legal but I don't think that applies to home work shop use. Cost is likely to be two to three hundred dollars.

    I just had the CSA inspector in at work and his bill was slightly more than $400 for about 20 minutes work.
    Last edited by Claude in Kitchener; 05-06-2010 at 03:32 PM.
    Claude


    “Small minds discuss people, average minds discuss events, great minds discuss ideas.”
    Admiral Hyman Rickover

  16. #36
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    Default Re: Grizzly waives Brokerage Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by Claude in Kitchener View Post
    Technically they shouldn't be selling in Canada without a CSA ( if it has a ULc label, your good to go) label but when push comes to shove they would just pull out of the market. They can't be bothered.

    If it were used in a commercial/industrial setting it would, at minimum, need a hydro inspection to be legal but I don't think that applies to home work shop use. Cost is likely to be two to three hundred dollars.

    I just had the CSA inspector in at work and his bill was slightly more than $400 for about 20 minutes work.
    Claude,

    There are a number of allowable certifications in play in Canada at the present time. CSA use to be the only one, but they have lost their monopoly position.
    I bought a steam shower that is Intertek Listed. It is a widely accepted certification.

    Don

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Grizzly waives Brokerage Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by kcjones View Post
    Looks like you have a nice unit coming your way. I took a look at the manual. A pretty comprehensive section on setting up the system - ducting, SP losses.

    Don

  18. #38

    Default Re: Grizzly waives Brokerage Fees

    It does look like a good machine. I guess I'll have to get the electrical connections ready for it's arrival and start buying some 6" ducting.
    I think I wll go with metal ducting just for the convenience.I was going to reduce from 7" to 6" right away at the machine and go with a main line of 6" and reduce to 4" at the machines. I guess I will have to start jockeying some of the machines around to get the best system.

  19. #39
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    Default Re: Grizzly waives Brokerage Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by kcjones View Post
    It does look like a good machine. I guess I'll have to get the electrical connections ready for it's arrival and start buying some 6" ducting.
    I think I wll go with metal ducting just for the convenience.I was going to reduce from 7" to 6" right away at the machine and go with a main line of 6" and reduce to 4" at the machines. I guess I will have to start jockeying some of the machines around to get the best system.
    If the machine is designed for 7" then look at that for your main first. 7" ducting can handle 300 CFM more than 6". You may as well get everything you can out of the machine.
    You can use Bill Penz static calculator to do some of the math for you.
    http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/testsnfaqs.cfm

    Don

  20. #40

    Default Re: Grizzly waives Brokerage Fees

    Quote Originally Posted by C. MOORE View Post
    The General in western Canada goes for $1279.00 WITH canisters for $1279.00 when it is NOT on sale....the same machine WITHOUT canisters can go for around $800 when on sale. The Tegs website is misleading...I am sure they do not sell any at that price.

    The Grizzly is cheaper....although it does not have CSA aproved electrics and does not have the upgraded machined...explosion proof...aluminum impeller like the General. The canisters are not of the same quality level either.

    As you may be aware i sell alot of General and i have sold King and Delta and a few others. General can be more expensive and sometimes machines can be similar with competitors...but overall i find you get better features and performance with General than you do with other low priced tools.

    I tend to stand by the saying "you almost always get what you pay for"...yes there are exceptions once in awhile...but normally this saying stands.

    Cole
    Normally I would not respond to posts like this as there are many "keyboard experts" out there. However, since you have made unsubstantiated negative comments about Grizzly machines I feel compelled to set the record straight even though it veers from the original thread subject.

    1) We deal with the same factory as the comparative machine referred to in your post (General). There is no performance/quality difference on the canisters as you indicate in your post.

    2) Your claim that the General has "machined" aluminum impellers is also false.Their impellers are cast aluminum. I know this for a fact. For clarification, a machined impeller would be one where it is machined out of a solid billet (a block of aluminum). If you have ever seen that process you would realize that it would be cost prohibitive to put a machined impeller on a small dust collector.

    3) Balancing a cast aluminum impeller is no different than balancing a steel impeller. Holes are generally drilled in the back to "balance" the round object, be it an impeller or a bandsaw wheel. Very similar to the idea of wheel weights on a car's wheel, where they add weight instead of removing weight. All this is done on a special balancing machine that most of these factories have.

    By the way, Yeti - thank you!
    Last edited by papagrizzly; 05-07-2010 at 04:08 PM.

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