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Thread: Clint's DC Thread

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  1. #1
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    Default Clint's DC Thread

    Thought I'd start my own thread on my venture into Bill Pentz Land.

    As many of you know, I'm currently in the process of converting from a 115v roll around DC to a 5Hp cyclone all 6" piped in with blast gates to each machine. As you may know, or can imagine, it is quite a process. The related information out there is scattered and controversial to say the least. But, I thought some may find a thread about this journey useful, as I found many more posts from those interested in doing this than those who have actually done this.
    Like a lot of you, my first DC was the best 115v machine I could find. In my case, the Steel City 65200:
    http://www.steelcitytoolworks.com/pr...y=5&tool=65200

    I soon began researching how to improve this machine as best I could, and documented my progress on the forum:
    http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com...dust+collector

    and then again:
    http://forum.canadianwoodworking.com...dust+collector

    Even after that, I put the original filter bag on the bottom to catch the chips (after the plastic bag tore), and now the suction was tremendous, possibly unmatched by any other 115v machine out there.
    But, I still had to roll it around my less than spacious shop (18’x20’) and hook it up to each machine before I could do anything. And with lots of edge and drum sanding, the filter had to be cleaned regularly. So, I sold my Kreg press in order to buy cyclone parts and 6” ducting.

    To be continued….
    Clint in London

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Clint's DC Thread

    In the attached photo of your previous unit, I can't tell if the plywood Thien baffle is installed abouve or below the dust inlet. Don't know if the unit was pictured rightside up or upside down in the other photos. Thanks

    filter.jpg
    He who laughs last..............probably didn't get it

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Clint's DC Thread

    The baffle is on the bottom, the adapter and central vein is on top.

    C
    Clint in London

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Clint's DC Thread

    Clint, after sending you those pm's a year or so ago, i finally got around to tearing out the reducing ring and installing the thien baffle. makes a tremendous difference. it actually sucked the pvc elbow off my mitre saw! (and fortunately it got hung up before it could go into the impeller).

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Clint's DC Thread

    CONTINUED...

    After a few years researching, I decided that a Clearvue cyclone was the way to go. I e-mailed them for a quote to get one to my home in London ON. I got the reply and decided kijiji.ca was the way to go. Commence months of daily monitoring. Finally, I found some Clearvue parts and some homemade Bill Pentz parts for sale in Ottawa. I had a friend buy it for me and he delivered it on his next trip to London. I still needed a collection bin and the filters.

    I bought a 70 gallon drum (steel wine barrel) for the collection barrel. I don’t like emptying the DC so I figured bigger would mean emptying less often.

    I bought the Merv 16 filters from Camfil-farr. They were only $105 each, and were the best filters I could find.
    Next I moved onto the ducting. I went with 6” PVC because it has less friction resistance than metal

    From Bill Pentz’s site:
    Here are the Hazen/Williams friction factors for various duct types (a higher C number is better).
    1. Corrugated steel duct= 60
    2. Spiral Duct = 90-100
    3. Laser Welded Steel Duct = 110-125
    4. 3-PVC Duct = 146


    PVC is also a lot quieter than metal. Those two factors alone set me off to find PVC ductwork and fittings. Wolseley Mechanical Group sells 6” sewer and drain pipe and fittings in Canada. Unfortunately, I found out that their cost was higher than retail prices in the US – that sucks! So, off to May Wilbert in Port Huron. They were awesome to deal with, very helpful. They even had someone meet me there on a Saturday, and they had long 90 degree elbows. I really can’t say enough good things about them. My ducting cost was just shy of $1000 to run to 14 ports (vs. about $2200 at Wolseley in Canada).

    I bought the blast gates from Clearvue and had them mailed to May Wilbert. I picked them up with the ducting to avoid extra cost (I also wasn’t charged duty at the boarder for the ducting). Mo (mreza) also sent me some of the older style blast gates that he wasn’t going to use. What a nice guy!

    So at this point, my basement was filled with materials, and I was facing the reality of the magnitude of the job ahead.

    To be continued…
    Last edited by "C"; 02-04-2012 at 08:02 PM.
    Clint in London

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    Default Re: Clint's DC Thread

    ...CONTINUED

    I decided to make my own brackets out of metal strapping and plywood to put up the ductwork. I mapped everything out before I bought the pipe and fittings. So, all I had to do was put it together. It' is mostly pressure fitted, but I used #7 7/16" self-tapping screws to attach hanging vertical pieces, and white duct tape at some joint.

    The drum sander is the biggest dust producer so I put it closest; 6” flex hose that splits to two 4”. I had to make the hose a little long so that I could move the drum sander around. Usually I just pivot it 90 degrees, but for really long boards, I roll it over in front of the miter saw.
    DSC_0395.jpg

    Next is the drill press. I haven’t hooked it up yet. I’ll report on that when I get there.
    DSC_0396.jpg

    The edge sander is at the end of the first run. I had to build a new shroud, because the original was 4”. It is amazing the difference. Nothing escapes: It’s as close to dustless sanding as possible. I use this sander constantly for all sorts of little things as well as typical edge sanding, so it’s great to be able to just pull a blast gate and go.
    DSC_0397.jpg

    In the middle of the first run the is a wye and a 45 elbow to go across the room, and from this run there is another run that breaks off to go towards the bench area. It’s from here that I have a drop to my jointer and planer. I have 8’ of infeed and outfeed, but I used enough flex hose here as well that I can move them to accommodate longer boards. The jointer got a 6” port put on it. The planer has the original 5” port, so I used a 6”-5” reducer to attach. Maybe one day I’ll get a 6” hood for the planer, but it works fine for now.
    DSC_0408.jpgDSC_0409.jpg

    More to come...

    C
    Clint in London

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Clint's DC Thread

    CONTINUED.....


    Past the jointer and planer drop the ducting goes to the 12”SCMS and a downdraft table. I researched DC for chop saws a lot before deciding to follow the route of the Wood Nerd. His is the best I could find:
    http://www.workshopaholic.net/worksh....html#mitersaw
    Mine is very similar, but I didn’t bother running a 2” hose from the saw into the hood, as very little dust actually makes it into that part on the Dewalt. As demonstrated in the video, it works very well. I also had to cut holes in the cabinet unit above to run the duct down.


    DSC_0398.jpgDSC_0417.jpgDSC_0412.jpg

    Here are two pics of the sides with the outer shell of the hood pulled forward. A lot of math involved in this one, but well worth it in the end.

    DSC_0416.jpg DSC_0414.jpg

    As many of you know, sanding in a small shop can be a dirty job. A down draft table is essential if you are really trying to eliminate as mush fine dust as possible. I decided to build it right into the bench since I had to build a new bench top anyway for my new 12” SCMS. I used 3/4" maple VC ply and 4/4 maple to build the bench top. The downdraft table is 48”x32”x4” with a ramp inside. The holes are ¾” diameter, spaced 3” apart (OC) and routed with a small roundover bit on both sides. I attached with a short length of flex hose and did not glue the top on so that if anything falls down the holes I can get to it fairly easily. I sprayed the hole thing with Varathane Diamond for hardwood floors. It's a thin, clear, hard, durable finish. This thing moves a lot of air. It actually doubles as an air cleaner as well.

    DSC_0410.jpgDSC_0411.jpg

    TO BE CONTINUED....
    Clint in London

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Clint's DC Thread

    Thanks for posting the progress pics Clint. I am unable to get to the site for the hood for the mitre saw due to internet restricitions (at work) but do you find that this picks up all the dust when cutting? I have a hood around my saw and put the hose coming off the top because of the rooster tail that comes off the back of the blade. I love the downdraft table idea. I have a full wall of bench similar to you with my SCMS in the middle and may steal this idea. Do you still hook your sander up to the DC or just rely on the table and does the table pick up all the dust without the sander hooked up to the DC? I hate having the hose hanging off the sander.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Clint's DC Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by jaywood1207 View Post
    do you find that this picks up all the dust when cutting?
    Probably 90%. Some hits the saw and lands on the back of the fence, and some settles on the saw if you make a lot of cuts. I just give it a few shots of compressed air and it disappears up the hood. Nothing escapes the shroud.


    Quote Originally Posted by jaywood1207 View Post
    Do you still hook your sander up to the DC or just rely on the table and does the table pick up all the dust without the sander hooked up to the DC? I hate having the hose hanging off the sander.
    I don't hook up a hose when sanding on the table. I have a hose and blast gate to use if sanding something large away from the table.

    C
    Clint in London

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Clint's DC Thread

    CONTINUED…

    The ducting goes straight across the middle of the shop to get to the west wall, and straight down the wall. The first wye takes a run to the south wall where it connects to the lathe and then to the bandsaw. I hung the lathe shroud and tools on a french cleat, so that they can be moved. Obviously some flex hose had to be used to accomplish this. It doesn't pick up the big chips, at least not powered with my 1 1/2hp DC, but it picks up smaller ones and is flawless when sanding as long as I move the shroud to line up with the area I'm working on. I think a downdraft approach would work really well for a lathe, and I might try that in the future, but I don't turn a lot and want to get this thing done!

    DSC_0402.jpg

    The ducting runs past the lathe pick-up down to the floor and across to the bandsaw. It makes for a lot of pipe and twists and turns, but I had to do it this way to avoid the overhead space where the garage door opens. Currently I have a 6"-4"-4" Y connected with 2 sections of 4" flex attached under the table; one at the side on top of the cabinet beside the bearings, and one into the top of the cabinet. Not efficient, I know, but I am shocked at how well it works. No dust in the cabinet, and the thrust and guide bearings stay clean. Plus, I have some slack to move the saw around if I need more capacity.

    DSC_0399.jpg
    DSC_0401.jpg

    As a side, regarding the mods that I made to my dust collector. Connecting the collector to the bandsaw, there is 7' of 6" flex, 45' of 6" pipe, 6 90 degree turns and two sections of 5' of 4" flex that twist around. That's an equivalent of approx. 150' of straight ducting and the suction is great - the dust is gone. I'm impressed, but what is it going to be like when I hook up a 5hp beast?

    C


    MORE TO COME...
    Clint in London

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Clint's DC Thread

    Clint - thanks for posting all this great info! There are about a half dozen ideas in here that I plan to shamelessly copy as soon as I have enough room! I particularly like your mitre saw station.

    Derek

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Clint's DC Thread

    CONTINUED...

    The second wye on the west wall feeds a run that goes toward the north. This Duct line feeds the router in the table saw (not yet hooked up [as there is no router there yet]). Next in line is the separate router table. I used a 6"-4"-4" wye with a 2 1/2" reducer for the above table pick-up. Again, I used flex hose so that I can move the table a bit to accommodate longer pieces. There is a 1/2" high opening along the whole right side of the cabinet. this allows air to flow through the cabinet towards the 4" pick-up.
    DSC_0403.jpgDSC_0405.jpg

    Past the router table is the floor sweep. I love this thing! I actually sweep my shop now. I just cut a 6" hole in a piece of my old outfeed table - a 3/4" piece of ply with 1 1/2" pieces around the sides and back. Like the band saw, I was skeptical whether or not this would work with my 1 1/2hp DC because of how far away it is and the number of turns, but it works great! I imagine that when I get my cyclone hooked up that I'll have to be careful using this.
    DSC_0404.jpg

    Last to come - the table saw.....


    C
    Clint in London

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Clint's DC Thread

    Clint - on your mitre saw, did you do anything to the stock dust ejector on that Dewalt? I've got the 10 inch non-sliding version and when it is right near the end of the cut (ie - the blade is about to finish the cut) the dust ejector points quite steeply upwards). I would imagine though there is a significant difference between your model and mine.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Clint's DC Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark_R View Post
    Clint - on your mitre saw, did you do anything to the stock dust ejector on that Dewalt? I've got the 10 inch non-sliding version and when it is right near the end of the cut (ie - the blade is about to finish the cut) the dust ejector points quite steeply upwards). I would imagine though there is a significant difference between your model and mine.
    I'm actually going to remove it. More dust bounces off it than goes through it. It really is a bafflingly terrible design - useless. I'll see if it improves collection or not.

    C
    Clint in London

  15. #15

    Default Re: Clint's DC Thread

    Shop looks great!!

    hobby woodworking since 1972

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Clint's DC Thread

    Clint, I think that DC must be a world champ.. on steroids or something. I have never heard of any 1 1/2 hp system and very few 2 hp units even approach what you've gotten that one to do well. If you realigned the impeller for a straight shot to the ring and with smooth pipe, it would be even more efficient. My Delta 50-760 should be the match, but is untried with smooth wall pipe so I can't say but I seriously doubt it.

  17. #17
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    Default

    Really interesting thread. Thanks for taking the time to do it.

    If you can be at all bothered I'd love to know how much ducting and elbows etc you got for the grand.
    Cheers

    Tim

    www.timbowdin.com

    'If you can't fix it with a hammer, you've got an electrical problem'

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Clint's DC Thread

    Don't have the bill, but this is close:


    100’ x 6” pipe
    13 x 6” wye
    10 x long 90 elbow
    10 x 45 elbow
    1 x 22.5 elbow
    A few couplings
    A 6”-6”-4” wye
    A 6”-4” reducer


    C
    Clint in London

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Clint's DC Thread

    Wow Clint, looks great! Not just the DC setup, the whole shop. It's amazing what one can do with a small shop space, some time and a little planning. Now, you do have more cash tied up in one tool than I have in my whole shop, but still ;)

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Clint's DC Thread

    Quote Originally Posted by acr View Post
    Wow Clint, looks great! Not just the DC setup, the whole shop. It's amazing what one can do with a small shop space, some time and a little planning. Now, you do have more cash tied up in one tool than I have in my whole shop, but still ;)
    Thanks Adam. I have invested a lot of time, research and planning to create this shop, but you might be surprised about the cost. Kijiji.ca is possibly the greatest asset in building a shop. True, the replacement value is high, but the drum sander is the only piece that cost over $1000. I build cabinets and custom furniture (as well as doing reno jobs), and over the last 5 years have always factored in the purchase of a new piece of equipment into my budget/pricing. I did one higher end kitchen a year or two ago, and that allowed me to buy the drum sander. Woodworking has paid for just about everything in my shop, though a few things were gifts. This whole DC endeavor was paid for by buying, repairing, and selling a Kreg Press.

    C
    Clint in London

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