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Thread: Clear Vue ducting

  1. #1
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    Dec 2006
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    AC Power

    Default Clear Vue ducting

    I just received my CV 1800. I was wondering, any of you have one that exhausts it to the outside and inside? I have electric and woodstove for heating. I know to exhaust the CV to outside means having makeup air. Or is it just better to run it as normal, forget exhausting it outside and let the filters do the job.

    Dan P.

  2. #2
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    Ted

    Default Re: Clear Vue ducting

    I do both depending on the season. I'm on a large rural area, no worries about outside dust. I would be worried about venting outside with a woodstove lit.
    When all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

  3. #3
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    Warren

    Default Re: Clear Vue ducting

    I would think you'd suck all your heat out really fast if it's cold out and as Ted said likely dangerous with a wood stove. It would likely work great when nice out if you have a makeup air.

  4. #4
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    AC Power

    Default Re: Clear Vue ducting

    Hey Hoss,
    This is my line of reasoning. I have electric heating in my shop (This is a brand new shop BTY, just ready to start insulating, electrical is done.) in the winter the wood stove will be the source of heat while I am there and the electric is there to keep above dew point in the nights. As you and Hawk have said using the CV can be dangerous, but only if you have insufficient makeup air. As long as the workshop does not have a negative pressure relative to the atmosphere, it is ok; though I see your concern. Mind you, the CV can pull alot of air and with it will go the heat as Hawk mentions. In the winter, it is not exactly balmy temperatures so maybe the best thing is to use filters and you can always open a window or two in the summer?

    Thanks,
    Dan
    Last edited by danpower; 05-03-2012 at 09:05 PM.

  5. #5
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    Default

    From what I have heard (haven't assembled mine yet) you get very little dust past the cyclone on a Pentz design. If you get the sub micron filters you should have no problems.

  6. #6
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    Default

    Venting outside is ok as long as you:
    1. Are not going to annoy any neighbors when you overflow the waste bin and fill the air with dust, and
    2. if you can tolerate the heat loss in the wintertime.

    There are lots of installations displayed on the Clear Vue website. Most are inside with filters because of both of these conditions. There is a saddle maker up at Valleyview,AB, who vents outside during the warm months. You can design the exhaust for dual service.

    Don

  7. #7
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    Burlington, Ontario
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    Default Re: Clear Vue ducting

    How big is your shop? Say it is 9' ceilings , 20' wide and 30' long. Total volume of the shop is something under 5,400 cubic feet. With a cyclone running pulling say 3,000 cfm it will entirely exchange the air in the shop in under 2 minutes. In winter that means that the inside temperature of your shop will be the outside temperature two minutes after starting the cyclone unless you have one hell of a heating system on your make up air inlet!

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Clear Vue ducting

    You'll loose a lot of heat as these do pull a lot of air. In summer it might be ok if you have window open somewhere else (so your filters aren't used as much)
    but I wouldn't do that in winter.
    You can put a Y with blast gates to switch between inside and outside.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Clear Vue ducting

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Burch View Post
    Venting outside is ok as long as you:
    1. Are not going to annoy any neighbors when you overflow the waste bin and fill the air with dust.
    I'm sure there is a way to have a full bin shutoff. I'd better figure this out before I build mine.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Clear Vue ducting

    Well Doug, my shop is 22' W X 26' L X 9' H = 5148 cubic feet. I'll use your figure of 3000 cfm (and I am pretty sure the CV1800 pulls more than that) and that gives me 1.7 minutes. So there, the question is answered. Thanks, looks like I will forget exhausting to the outside. And even in the warmer months I can still open a window or two. Thanks Doug.
    Dan P.

  11. #11
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    Default

    There certainly will be some air mixing so it will take longer to reach the outside temperature but it will get uncomfortable really fast.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Clear Vue ducting

    Quote Originally Posted by danpower View Post
    Well Doug, my shop is 22' W X 26' L X 9' H = 5148 cubic feet. I'll use your figure of 3000 cfm (and I am pretty sure the CV1800 pulls more than that) and that gives me 1.7 minutes. So there, the question is answered. Thanks, looks like I will forget exhausting to the outside. And even in the warmer months I can still open a window or two. Thanks Doug.
    Dan P.
    Dan,
    Your CV1800 is rated at a conservative but steady 1440 CFM fully assembled. So it may take closer to 4 minutes. Still, not a long time in February.

    Don

  13. #13
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    Forest Hill, Maryland, USA
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    Default Re: Clear Vue ducting

    Quote Originally Posted by Doug in Burlington View Post
    How big is your shop? Say it is 9' ceilings , 20' wide and 30' long. Total volume of the shop is something under 5,400 cubic feet. With a cyclone running pulling say 3,000 cfm it will entirely exchange the air in the shop in under 2 minutes. In winter that means that the inside temperature of your shop will be the outside temperature two minutes after starting the cyclone unless you have one hell of a heating system on your make up air inlet!
    Not exactly - if this was the case, every time you opened the refrigerator door - the interior would become room temperature. The temperature of the room depends much more on the thermal mass in the room. If you have a typical shop with cast iron tools, concrete floors, drywall, etc., they will hold heat, even if the air is exchanged as in the example given.

    True, you will lose heat - no question about it - how much and how fast depends on many factors but it is no where near as simple as saying you will be at the exteriro temperature in under 2 minutes. If you run your cyclone the whole time you are in the shop, you will lose a lot of heat, no question. But if you turn on the cyclone as you use tools and off when you aren't, the loss is dramatically less.

    If I get to it, I will be installing a damper that will allow me to direct flow through the filter or outside - this winter, I'll let you know how it works.

    Good luck.

    Phil

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Clear Vue ducting

    While eventually the temperature of the air would rise it takes time for that large mass to transfer heat into the air. If it is -20C outside your shop is going to become damn cold very quickly! When you are pulling in that much air, continuosly, there is no time for the air to equilibrate with the heat that is held by the contents. True, it will start to warm up but only when you turn off the dust collector and stop throwing the warm air outside! Your refridgerator is only dumping a small fraction of the volume of the room into the room and it is a one shot deal, it does not keep replenishing the cold air while the door stays open!

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Clear Vue ducting

    Obviously if it is 70F in the shop and -4F outside, it will cool down quickly - no question. (We don't ever deal with that "-" in front of our temps here so that isn't a problem). And as I said, if it stayed on continuously, it would be an issue, however, intermittent use won't make that much of a difference. The heat source will help overcome some of the loss and the mass will handle a lot of it.

    We just did 3 dust collection systems for high schools in Baltimore, I designed them to have the ability to exhaust outside or through filters. We didn't have a very cold winter but there was no problem at all maintaining the shop temperature with just hydronic heat at the windows and the AHUs turned off. When the DC turned on, an MOD opened and un-tempered outside air was brought in (this was not the design but was how it was used). The DCs were Oneida 5hp Pro with VFDs - two per shop. We are talking about a MUCH larger area, many times the volume of the theoretical shop discussed here so it isn't truly apples to apples but does illustrate a point.

    By the way, a typical refrigerator loses nearly 90% of its internal air from the suction of the door opening - once it is open, the loss is reduced - I tried to find out where I read this - can't place it. Commercial refrigeration is designed differently so this doesn't apply.

    thanks

    Phil

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Clear Vue ducting

    More than temperature loss I would be concerned with carbon monoxide being pulled back into the shop. A good quality carbon monoxide detector would be a must.
    In order to understand recursion, one must first understand recursion

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