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Thread: Which hinge sizes, brands and sources for solid core interior doors?

  1. #21
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    Default Re: How to to mortise a bevelled hinge door edge?

    You're beginning to really worry me! Is anyone with some experience going to help you?

    It sounds like you have a lot of money invested in this project and you could blow it real easy.

    At the very least I would do two things. First, get one of these; http://www.amazon.ca/Bosch-83038-Del.../dp/B0000224KW it doesn't have to be a Bosch. There are others. Second go and buy a cheap door and jamb and practice hanging it so you understand how it all works.

    That jig you show in the video is way over the hill. I have the Bosch jig and use it for big jobs but if you saw what I use for one or two doors the simplicity might cause you to faint.

    As for the bevel edge, obviously cutting it flat is not an option. [BTW, a picture of what your jambs and doors look like would have helped everyone.] Make a small sample door and jamb with the same bevel and fit the hinge to it and see how it works for you. A bevel on the hinge side is not optimum but it is not a deal breaker. As long as the door stop will cover the gap created by the bevel it's doable. Hell, you could even set your jamb on the same bevel angle if you had the skill to do it.
    "Do it Right!"

  2. #22

    Default Re: How to to mortise a bevelled hinge door edge?

    Quote Originally Posted by Torontoeon View Post
    Well I have to make a jig anyway so that's not any extra work, but cutting the doors is, for me anyway. A table saw is out of the question as these are heavy 8' long doors and I am doing them myself. I also don't trust myself to get the doors perfectly square with a circular saw. I appreciate the tip on how to avoid chipping. Thanks.

    Most importantly, though, these doors are veneered on the bevelled edges the same as on the face so I would lose that veneer and the edge would no longer match the face as the wood underneath is not sapele mahogany. I know it's just the hinged edge where the sapele veneer would be removed, which you only see when you open the door, but still. Next time I order doors I will make sure the hinged side is not bevelled by informing the manufacturer which doors are left-handed and which doors are right-handed. They didn't ask and just bevelled both edges and I didn't know anything about doors at that time and so I didn't know to specify. One would think, though, that a high-end custom door manufacturer would at least ask what edges I wanted beveled if nothing was specified by me.

    I take it that I need to predrill into the mahogany jambs and the door for the hinges?
    I think if you check your edges looking from the top -- you will find that they are at least 1/4" -3/8" thick as that's how they make them when they use veneer. I just finished doing 4 vertical grain fir veneered doors and put the bevel on and hinged them and never went through the veneer. FWIW JMHO.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: How to to mortise a bevelled hinge door edge?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
    You're beginning to really worry me! Is anyone with some experience going to help you?

    It sounds like you have a lot of money invested in this project and you could blow it real easy.

    At the very least I would do two things. First, get one of these; http://www.amazon.ca/Bosch-83038-Del.../dp/B0000224KW it doesn't have to be a Bosch. There are others. Second go and buy a cheap door and jamb and practice hanging it so you understand how it all works.

    That jig you show in the video is way over the hill. I have the Bosch jig and use it for big jobs but if you saw what I use for one or two doors the simplicity might cause you to faint.

    As for the bevel edge, obviously cutting it flat is not an option. [BTW, a picture of what your jambs and doors look like would have helped everyone.] Make a small sample door and jamb with the same bevel and fit the hinge to it and see how it works for you. A bevel on the hinge side is not optimum but it is not a deal breaker. As long as the door stop will cover the gap created by the bevel it's doable. Hell, you could even set your jamb on the same bevel angle if you had the skill to do it.
    I am doing it by myself and maybe I am naive, but I am not worried. I would if I hadn't posted on here and gotten all this great advice, though. I've read about the Bosch jig and the Porter Cable one and others. None seem to work on bevelled doors though or am I mistaken? It seems to me I would end up with the face of the hinge at the pin side being flush with the edge and the other side being recessed into the edge (not to mention the fact that commercially available jigs only seem to be available online in Toronto and I need to start today as I have guests coming who want a door on their bedroom! - how picky, lol).

    Of course I do not need a jig as adjustable as the one in the video, but it did help me in understanding how to make one out of wood. I am just about to make a 'U'-shaped jig where the bottom part of the U is at the same angle as the bevel on the edge of the door and one leg of the U is adjustable so I can clamp it tight over the door so it doesn't move (maybe with some felt so there is no chance of marking the door). If it was not adjustable and I made it 1/32" wider than the door thickness maybe the flex in the wood on the jig would allow me to clamp it. But since I have the slider and knobs already I'll do it the way I originally intended.

    I am curious, though, other than the fact that making the hinge mortise is a bit more of a pain in a bevelled edge why else is it not optimum? Would not the door operated the same way regardless? The bevel appears to be 1/8" wide and that plus another 1/16" or 1/8" gap on the hinge side would easily be covered by the 5/8" door stop material. What concern am I missing?

    Here are pics of the bevelled edge of the doors and of the jamb material. I didn't realize it would help to post them as they're pretty basic - 1-3/4" thick with a bevel of about 1/8" on each side with the jamb material being 7/8" thick by 4-5/8" wide. You can see in the picture that there is some type of solid wood edge material varying in thickness from one side to the other from 1/2" on one side of the bevel to 5/8" on the other side. I find it hard to tell if that thick edge material is sapele mahogany or not and how much veneer is on it. If it is sapele mahogany then maybe there is no veneer on it. Wally in Calgary may be right that I may not go through the veneer material on the edge and if there isn't any and it is sapele, then it doesn't matter as I'll just be slicing a bit of the sapele off, but I just can't tell. But it's a moot point as I don't feel confident removing it with a circular saw (and table saw is out of the question for me to do with these heavy doors). Even if I did I still have to make the hinge mortices anyway, so I'd rather put my effort into doing that with the bevel there.

    jambs.jpgbevels.jpgbevel2.jpg
    Last edited by Torontoeon; 07-29-2012 at 12:53 PM.

  4. #24
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    Default Re: How to to mortise a bevelled hinge door edge?

    A picture is worth a thousand words and in this case it validates what Wally said. Even tho You said you would cut thru the veneer.......It wasn't necessarily true was it?

    The door is a particle core with a thin face veneer and solid edging to hold screws for the hinges and door knob strike latch.

    For clarity Wally was talking about a track saw. Not just a circular saw.

    The reason the bevel is not Optimum in my opinion is the hinge will never be fully closed and so the door will not gain any support,[however small it may be] from closing tightly against the hinge jamb and gaining support against racking. For example if any door starts to sag on the latch side you can shim the bottom of the hinge jamb outward against the bottom corner of the door and force the door up into proper alignment.

    Hinge jig?? Why "U" shape? make an "L" and clamp it to your doors. I'd trust a clamp a helluva lot more than some knobs and screws.
    "Do it Right!"

  5. #25

    Default Re: How to to mortise a bevelled hinge door edge?

    Here's a couple of pics that might help explain what I am talking about. Also a couple of a quick jig that you can make and clamp to your doors for the hinge mortise. This is what I use to cut the door if needed but you could do the same by clamping a straight edge to the door and putting a piece of HB under your saw. It won't splinter anyways as you are cutting with the grain and in solid mahogany but protection is easy to do.







  6. #26
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    Default Re: How to to mortise a bevelled hinge door edge?

    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty View Post
    A picture is worth a thousand words and in this case it validates what Wally said. Even tho You said you would cut thru the veneer.......It wasn't necessarily true was it?

    The door is a particle core with a thin face veneer and solid edging to hold screws for the hinges and door knob strike latch.

    For clarity Wally was talking about a track saw. Not just a circular saw.

    The reason the bevel is not Optimum in my opinion is the hinge will never be fully closed and so the door will not gain any support,[however small it may be] from closing tightly against the hinge jamb and gaining support against racking. For example if any door starts to sag on the latch side you can shim the bottom of the hinge jamb outward against the bottom corner of the door and force the door up into proper alignment.

    Hinge jig?? Why "U" shape? make an "L" and clamp it to your doors. I'd trust a clamp a helluva lot more than some knobs and screws.
    Actually I asked Wally if he meant TS as in Festool TS55, which is a track saw, and he replied and he said:

    Quote Originally Posted by Wally in Calgary View Post
    I meant Table Saw or a circular saw.
    and then he kindly advised me how to use the circular saw without chipping. But, now I see in the pic he posted he shows a track saw.

    So, the edge wood is mahogany? I couldn't tell and still can't. All I know is that it is solid wood and I think there is veneer on it. Maybe not. I'm at a loss there, but if you say it is mahogany too then that removes that concern of mine.

    A L shape makes more sense. I got thrown off by that video. I wish you told me that before, lol, as now I just spent a few hours making a U shaped jig. I can avoid using the other leg though.

    As for the door never being fully closed because of the bevel, I thought it was never fully closed even without the bevel because of the fact you have a 1/16" to 1/8" gap at the hinge side of the door between the edge and the jamb anyway, no?
    Last edited by Torontoeon; 07-29-2012 at 07:37 PM.

  7. #27
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    Default Re: How to to mortise a bevelled hinge door edge?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wally in Calgary View Post
    Here's a couple of pics that might help explain what I am talking about. Also a couple of a quick jig that you can make and clamp to your doors for the hinge mortise. This is what I use to cut the door if needed but you could do the same by clamping a straight edge to the door and putting a piece of HB under your saw. It won't splinter anyways as you are cutting with the grain and in solid mahogany but protection is easy to do.
    Thanks for that explanation and pics. Maybe I'll try cutting the bevel off one of the narrow closet doors that are a part of this set of doors and see how I do and what happens with that edge. I will be needing a Festool TS55 anyway for some panelling I'll doing so maybe I'll pick that up tomorrow at Lee Valley. The router I borrowed from a friend is not one that a bushing can be used with so my jig would have to have much larger squares cut out (2-3/4" on each side) and would be a bit more cumbersome to make, so maybe I'll buy one that a bushing can be used with.

    I like the fact that for each door the spacing would be set exactly the same because it is just one big jig that would then be reversed for the jamb (properly spaced, of course as the top and bottom hinges are different distances from the edges).

  8. #28
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    Default Re: How to to mortise a bevelled hinge door edge?

    Wally - What hinge spacing are you using on that jig? I was thinking of 5" from the top and 10" from the bottom with the center one evenly spaced between the two, although I've seen other measurements (7" & 11") on the net. Just wondering what the standard is here in Canada.

  9. #29

    Default Re: How to to mortise a bevelled hinge door edge?

    Quote Originally Posted by Torontoeon View Post
    Wally - What hinge spacing are you using on that jig? I was thinking of 5" from the top and 10" from the bottom with the center one evenly spaced between the two, although I've seen other measurements (7" & 11") on the net. Just wondering what the standard is here in Canada.
    I make mine 9" to center top & bottom and center of door - 40" - I don't think it matters to the look of it ( with 3 hinges) and it makes one jig reversible. The cutouts are 1/8" wider than the hinge and you use a 1/2" bit with a 5/8" bushing and buy hinges that have 1/4" radius corners. Then you make a flat jig to match it with a stop on the bottom and do all the jambs too. It makes things a lot simpler to do.

  10. #30

    Default Re: How to to mortise a bevelled hinge door edge?

    Quote Originally Posted by Torontoeon View Post
    Actually I asked Wally if he meant TS as in Festool TS55, which is a track saw, and he replied and he said:



    and then he kindly advised me how to use the circular saw without chipping. But, now I see in the pic he posted he shows a track saw.


    So, the edge wood is mahogany? I couldn't tell and still can't. All I know is that it is solid wood and I think there is veneer on it. Maybe not. I'm at a loss there, but if you say it is mahogany too then that removes that concern of mine.

    A L shape makes more sense. I got thrown off by that video. I wish you told me that before, lol, as now I just spent a few hours making a U shaped jig. I can avoid using the other leg though.

    As for the door never being fully closed because of the bevel, I thought it was never fully closed even without the bevel because of the fact you have a 1/16" to 1/8" gap at the hinge side of the door between the edge and the jamb anyway, no?
    The pic I showed is my cordless circ saw with a zero clearance base and a straight edge that clamps to the door or sheet goods. FWIW.

  11. #31
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    Default Re: How to to mortise a bevelled hinge door edge?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wally in Calgary View Post
    I make mine 9" to center top & bottom and center of door - 40" - I don't think it matters to the look of it ( with 3 hinges) and it makes one jig reversible. The cutouts are 1/8" wider than the hinge and you use a 1/2" bit with a 5/8" bushing and buy hinges that have 1/4" radius corners. Then you make a flat jig to match it with a stop on the bottom and do all the jambs too. It makes things a lot simpler to do.
    I have the hinges already and they are square edged. I thought they'd look better in this contemporary house, but now that I think of it they won't really be seen much anyway. I bought a good chisel and practised squaring out the corners of some test mortices I made on some scrap and seem to have the hang of it now.

    I thought that the different spacing from top and bottom on a 3 hinge door that seems to be advised everywhere had something to do with proper operation of all the hinges. But then that really doesn't make sense to me as the vertical load does not change no matter where you put the hinges and the moment (ie rotational load) will only change very slightly by the bottom hinge (and therefore the middle hinge) being moved a few inches either way. Is different spacing it just aesthetics?
    Last edited by Torontoeon; 07-29-2012 at 09:42 PM.

  12. #32

    Default Re: How to to mortise a bevelled hinge door edge?

    I think it is just aesthetics and comes from when it is only 2 hinges and sometimes the bottom of the door had to be cut off. Here is what I use for square hinges. It works quite well and fast too.

  13. #33
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    Default Re: How to to mortise a bevelled hinge door edge?

    Wow, that sure is a nifty tool. I'm getting one. Thanks.

    I am going to space the hinges just like you have on my jig. Equal distances from the top and bottom and the middle one centered with a stop at the end of the jig and that way I can just flip it around and use it for the jamb. I guess the important thing will be to make sure the mortice cut-outs are perfectly spaced equally from the top and bottom and the middle one exactly centred because when I flip the jig around to do the jamb they have to be in exactly the same location. How did you get those cut-outs so perfectly square and straight? I thought I'd start off the perpendicular cuts with a mitre saw and then use a jigsaw and clamp down a guide in both directions.

    I'll let you know how I do with sawing off these bezels when I get my Festool TS55. (I'm crossing my fingers).
    Last edited by Torontoeon; 07-30-2012 at 12:37 AM.

  14. #34

    Default Re: How to to mortise a bevelled hinge door edge?

    Quote Originally Posted by Torontoeon View Post
    Wow, that sure is a nifty tool. I'm getting one. Thanks.

    I am going to space the hinges just like you have on my jig. Equal distances from the top and bottom and the middle one centered with a stop at the end of the jig and that way I can just flip it around and use it for the jamb. I guess the important thing will be to make sure the mortice cut-outs are perfectly spaced equally from the top and bottom and the middle one exactly centred because when I flip the jig around to do the jamb they have to be in exactly the same location. How did you get those cut-outs so perfectly square and straight? I thought I'd start off the perpendicular cuts with a mitre saw and then use a jigsaw and clamp down a guide in both directions.

    I'll let you know how I do with sawing off these bezels when I get my Festool TS55. (I'm crossing my fingers).
    I marked the cutouts and did them on the table saw. Then I cut the back with a jig saw and cleaned it up on the table saw. You have to make a different jig for the jambs as it has to be flat and with the right set back for the hinge and a stop for the back of the hinge.

  15. #35
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    Default Re: How to to mortise a bevelled hinge door edge?

    Oh yeah, didn't think of that, thanks. Wouldn't a chop saw and a table saw do exactly the same job for the perpendicular cuts? Because a table saw or chop saw cuts in an arc wouldn't I have to clean up the perpendicular cuts with a jigsaw too, unless I let them go past the mark? On the table saw (or chop saw, for that matter) but I am not sure how you clean the back as it is a cut in the middle of the wood.
    Last edited by Torontoeon; 07-30-2012 at 01:45 AM.

  16. #36

    Default Re: How to to mortise a bevelled hinge door edge?

    Quote Originally Posted by Torontoeon View Post
    Oh yeah, didn't think of that, thanks. Wouldn't a chop saw and a table saw do exactly the same job for the perpendicular cuts? Because a table saw or chop saw cuts in an arc wouldn't I have to clean up the perpendicular cuts with a jigsaw too, unless I let them go past the mark? On the table saw (or chop saw, for that matter) but I am not sure how you clean the back as it is a cut in the middle of the wood.
    Yes you could use the MS but I prefer the TS as I can see the mark better and and have both hands to control it and move the stock back and forth on the miter gauge over the top of the blade to clean up the JS cut. You could just use the MS and the JS and then file or rasp the cut flat.

  17. #37
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    Default Re: How to to mortise a bevelled hinge door edge?

    Don't forget the hinge mortices on the jamb need to be an 1/8 of an inch [or so] lower than those on the door so you have a gap at the top of the door and the head jamb. That's why you can't flip the jig around, plus the jamb legs are longer than the door. An 1/8th inch spacer solves the problem.

    If you do the jig on a table saw you can use a dado blade setup in the saw and get a flat top in the jig.
    "Do it Right!"

  18. #38
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    Default Re: How to to mortise a bevelled hinge door edge?

    Wally - Ok now I get it. I just leave the blade really low. I guess there is still a tiny bit that the blade can't get to in each corner that the table saw can't reach right?

    Rusty - Oh man, thanks for mentioning that. I knew about the gap but I didn't note in my instructions to move the jig down 1/8" from the rabbet in my instruction list. Actually I think I'll just make the jig so that it extends to the end of the rabbet, and account for the rabbet and the 1/8" of an inch and put a stop on it. That will put the mortises at the right location.

    I just realized I have to get a sub-base and a bushing for a 1/2" router bit for this Craftsman router someone lent me because without it it's a lot of work to make this jigs. I'd have to make those cut outs in the jig like you did (they wouldn't have to be accurate though) and then screw guides in around each opening onto the wood. I know from the single one I made yesterday before I decided to change my approach and attempt to cut the bevels off. With a router with a bushing all I have to do is create the cut-outs.
    Last edited by Torontoeon; 07-30-2012 at 10:47 AM.

  19. #39

    Default Re: How to to mortise a bevelled hinge door edge?

    You can get a 1/2" bit with a 5/8" top bearing at LV and then you don't need a guide bushing. Check the bit on this page.
    http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...19&cat=1,43000

  20. #40
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    Default Re: How to to mortise a bevelled hinge door edge?

    Thanks so much! I was just heading out the door to pick up my TS55 at Lee Valley and decided to ask you another question and saw this. That sure would make life easier and save me money, so I just ordered one for pick-up. The distance from the bottom of the bit to the top of the bushing appears to be about 3/4", so I guess I should build the jig out of at least 3/4" plywood.

    What I was wondering was how far your jig extends in front of the door frame. I know it should extend a bit so that the router lays flat before the bit hits the edge of the door but not sure how much.
    Last edited by Torontoeon; 07-30-2012 at 11:12 AM.

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